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L—l2a.

J. W. DEEM.

137. Do you think that would be better than a fine?—lt would be effective on the individual man, but would not have the moral effect on his neighbour. 138. Mr. Macpherson.] In regard to the cleaning of cans, Mr. Lang asked you if making the regulation road cleaning them six hours before milking would not be reasonable. I said it was too long. Mr. Lang had in his mind dairymen who come home late at night. There are other cases where six hours would be too long. Many men do not get back from the factory till 12 o'clock, and then have to start milking at 3 o'clock. That means only three or four hours. Then, you may slip a shoe and get back later. Do you think the three or four hours would be sufficient? In regard to your statement that it is more difficult to clean cans when the milk has dried, 1 doubt it. In hot weather milk will dry quite hard in half an hour in the sun?— That is open to question. 139. Well, within an hour. Do you think three hours before milking would be sufficient? — I think the regulation would be better. It is impossible in most cases to comply with it. It is impossible to lay down regulations which would apply in all cases. 140. It could be put in?— Some definite time must be put in. 141. lion. Mr. McNab.] You do not believe in taking home the whey in the milk-cans? —No, I do not approve of it. 142. Mr. Okey.] How could you get it back? —Farmers use old cans for the purpose. 143. Hon. Mr. McNab.] You know that the large cheese-factories prohibit their suppliers taking home whey in their cans?— Yes. 144. Mr. Witty.] If the whey is taken back, would it not come under the definition of pigMash, and therefore you coukLuse the cart?—No, I do not think so. James R. Scott, Secretary of the National Dairy Association, South Island, examined. (No. 7.) Witness: I have been secretary of the National Dairy Association since 1891, and previous to that was connected with the dairy industry. I sent the first frozen butter Home in 1883. This shows 1 have known the dairy industry in New Zealand, as an export business, since its inception. With regard to the regulations, I may tell you that three or four years ago our people in the South commenced an agitation for the Government to bring in measures to carry out the inspection proposed. We have always in our resolutions stated that the inspection should be in the direction of educating the farmer, but that the powers proposed to be conferred on the Department were absolutely in cases where drastic action was necessary. At the Dunedin and Invercargill Conferences of the association during the past two years we have carried motions urging the Government to carry out the regulations now proposed, and it was passed unanimously that the farmers in the South were willing to pay 10s. or 15s. a head as a tax for the purpose. It is absolutely necessary to bring about an improvement in the milk. Our experience is that perhaps 60 or 70 per cent, of the suppliers have been gradually improving, keeping their milk clean and carrying out improvements in their stockyards. Then, there is another 30 or 40 per cent, who will not do anything. These are simply a drag on the industry. The factories have tried various measures for improving the milk-supply. They have instructed factory-managers to reject all inferior milk. But sometimes it was the chairman's milk, and sometimes a director's. There was trouble anyhow. lam certain there is no person capable of doing it effectively unless an Inspector under the Government. That is the view of our people. They want an independent impartial man to carry out the regulations. Some two years ago Mr. Clifton visited Dunedin at the time of the Winter Show, and explained the policy of the Department. This was before the Minister for Agriculture had announced, as he did definitely at Palmerston, what he was going to do under the Bill. Mr. Clifton then met a very representative body of men, from Canterbury, Otago, and Southland. Mr. Clifton explained the proposals, and they met with the entire approval of the dairymen present. Mr. Clifton came down last year. Then, when the Minister announced his policy at Palmerston in regard to dairy-inspection it met with the entire approval of the gathering. This year we got Mr. Clifton down again. The Conference waited a day for him, and all present took great interest in the question. He went into the thing exhaustively, giving all the salient points in the requirements of the Department. He answered many questions in regard to difficulties in complying with the regulations—similar difficulties to those Mr. Deem has been talking about. I may tell you, as far as my people are concerned, they were thoroughly satisfied, and were quite willing, as far as I could see, to leave the matter entirely in the hands of the Department. It was thoroughly understood by the Conference that it was not a policeman's Act —that it was not the object of the Department to gain convictions, and that an Inspector would not gain kudos by being too sharp. The main idea was to bring the ruck of the farmers up to a proper standard. Many farmers were struggling to do their best, but did not know how to improve their conditions. These men would be assisted, educated, and given the necessary information. This is what Mr. Clifton laid down in Dunedin, and this, I believe, is the policy of the Department. What I have said is the opinion of our members, and they represent all but three factories in the South Island—Okain's Bay, Temuka, and Belfast. We have had many conferences, and the regulations were brought into existence at the urgent request of the dairy factories in the association, as they felt it was absolutely necessary. I examine all the cheese shipped by my association at Dunedin and the Bluff. We find that all the faults in the cheese are in connection with the flavour, and the unsatisfactory flavours are distinctly traceable to bad milk. Every one in the business knows that we cannot get any further till we bring the ruck of the men up to supply a proper standard of clean milk to the factories. The factories tried inspectors of their own, but there was always friction and rows —fighting with the factory-manager,