2

[D. CUDDIE.

1.—12 a.

The Chairman: Mr. Buddo, do you wish to say anything? 3. Mr. Buddo.\ Could you, without giving any names, give instances in which you have had reason to believe that the detriment of the output was caused by contaminated milk? —So far as that is concerned, that is almost a daily occurrence at dairy factories, because we find that when produce is made from well-cared-for milk the quality is very much superior. 4. Is it confined to any particular districts? —Very often we find that there is more trouble in a factory that has been run for some time than in an absolutely new one; and the reason is that the flooring is clean in a new factory, and the first sea,son they seem to go along all right. The reason is that when dairying commences in a district, the conditions at first are, as a rule, more conducive to the production of cleaner milk—that is, the cans and utensils of the suppliers are new in the first season. In some districts they have made improvements in the milk-supply, and the main reason, I think, is that the yards and sheds have been improved, and they are kept in better condition than they were formerly. 5. Is your difficulty principally confined to the yards and the sheds, or rather the sheds and the yards adjoining, or do you find difficulties in bringing the herd to the yard?—We do not have very much to do with the actual working at the farms : that comes under the control of the Stock Division of the Department. Our duty begins when the milk is delivered at the factories. 6. When you have found an unsatisfactory supply, do you follow it up? Do you find it is practically always the conditions of the yards and sheds ? —As a general rule the faults in the milk are due to defects or to carelessness in handling. In some cases where inferior milk is detected on the "weighing-stage by the instructors an effort has been made in the past to visit the farms, but very little of this work could be taken in hand owing to the magnitude of the undertaking and the limited number of men at our disposal. 7. The paving in my district is confined to the yards, but we find a difficulty in providing in some cases concrete for yards. Could you suggest any other material more or less equally suitable for flooring?— Concrete, of course, is the best, but where it is not obtainable some other material should be used. Tight wood floors made impervious to moisture, with close joints, would, I think, prove satisfactory, if kept clean. 8. Would bricks suit if they were cemented with concrete?— They are not as good as concrete. Bricks are porous, and do not make an ideal floor for milking-sheds. The, Chairman: Do you wish to say anything, Mr. Rutherford? 9. Mr. You said, Mr. Cuddie, that there had been no prosecutions under the Dairy Act within the last five years; but has your attention been drawn to the case of Dr. Levinge, in Christchurch? —I was speaking in connection with the export dairy regulations. 10. Could you prosecute the dairy for bringing in bad milk to the factory? Have you had any prosecutions?— Yes, we could prosecute owners of insanitary dairy factories for breaches of the regulations with reference to branding, stamping, and shipping. If the buildings for the dairy factories are not sanitary we have practically power to close them down. 11. You referred, however, to the farmers' buildings?—We do not touch them. We have no control over that end. That comes under the Stock Division. . The Chairman: Do you wish to say anything, Mr. Okey? 12. Mr. Okey.'] Mr. Cuddie, we have factories in the Taranaki District grading as high as 97 points. Do you think these regulations will affect these factories? 97 is their average?—l think that is incorrect. Our highest average, I think, was something under 94 for the whole season, and the quantity of butter grading up to 97 is infinitesimal. 13. You do not think factories grading up to 97 points can be improved?— Well, there would not be very much need for any further improvement. 14. Then there is another point, Mr. Cuddie, with regard to the feeding-flavour which we have in the spring-time. These regulations will not affect that in any way?— No. It seems to me that there is a great deal of misapprehension about feed-flavours. It gets a great deal of blame that it is not really responsible for, although I freely admit that the flavour of the milk is affected to some extent by the kind of feed given to the cows, and it is more noticeable in some districts than in others. 15. The dairy-manager cannot at the present time send back inferior milk?— Yes, and most of them carry out that to some extent, but it does not seem to have the effect of improving the supply; and, besides, milk that is returned is a heavy loss to the owner. It is also a loss "to the dairy company, because their working-expenses are just as high, whether they work up that milk or not. Then, again, it is also a loss to the industry. The value of the milk rejected or returned every year is a heavy tax on the farmers, and if the regulations proposed are enforced, I believe that a very large proportion of this present loss will be avoided. 16. Do you not think there should be some different conditions for settlers in the back country that make their own butter ? It is almost impossible for them to comply with the regulations ? In some cases it would be, but this is where the discretion of the Department would come in, in dealing with dairies so situated. 17. Do you not think there should be some special regulations?—l hardly think so. 18. It is almost impossible for them to get the cement floors. We have cases, Mr. Cuddie, where they have to pack their butter on pack-horses, and there is no means for making concrete. It is impossible in that case for a man to put down a cement floor and yard ?—I quite agree with you. 19. Do you not think there should be provision in the regulations to have a backblocks area in some cases?—l do not see why. The difficulty can be got over by making allowances under such circumstances. The Chairman: Do you wish to say anything, Mr. Witty?