I.—9a.

25

E. V. MILLER. [

31. And the amount that will come to the Provident Fund will come to more than £20,000? — Yes. 32. Which will also be regarded as invested capital?— Yes. 33. And that is in effect £200,000? —The accumulated funds for the year I am speaking of amounted to £208,971. 34. I was trying to get at the value of the shares credited to the Provident Fund?—lhe number of shares owned by the Provident Fund in June, 1907, was 3,452, and the book-value of those was —the actual value was a great deal more —£107,800. 35. What was the original value of the shares? —£20. The actual value is now somewhere about £50. 36. Mr. Barber.'] You said the book-value? —Yes—that is, the value when they were bought some time ago. The book-value then was greater than the nominal value. 37. The Chairman.'] The interest, you said, was £s,6l9?—Yes. 38. You say that the funds of the Provident Society have been invested in shares of the company until 3,452 shares have been bought up. Their original value was £20 when subscribed, but they have risen in value since, and being bought at different times they varied in price? —Yes. 39. If you take them at 10 per cent., the interest should have been £6,904? —You are speaking of the interest. That does not refer to these shares. It is the dividend which refers to the shares. The dividend was £6,637. . 40. Apparently it was not a continuous 10 per cent, dividend, but not far short of it f—Probably some of the shares were bought during the year. On referring to the previous year's accounts I see that there were not so many shares held before, so that there must have been more shares purchased, and these would not pay full dividend for the year they were bought. On account of the very large subsidy and help given by the Sugar Company the Provident Fund is able to give benefits in excess of those offered by any society that I have heard of. I put in a book of the rules of the Provident Fund. . . . . 41. There is a copy of the rules attached to the report of a Royal Commission which inquired into these matters some ten years ago ?—These rules have been revised from time to time. 42. The subscriptions of the employees are regulated according to the scale of wages, and amount to about 2J per cent, of the yearly wages or income ?—Yes ; for the labourer getting £2 2s. a week there is a "little latitude as to what he shall subscribe, but he generally subscribes Is. a week. . 43. What proportion does that bear to his wages?— Very closely 2J per cent., and at death his relatives receive a sum of £104. 44. Have you had many cases since the establishment of the fund where this money has been paid j—We have had several cases in Auckland. 45. And it has been paid in all cases of death?— Yes, every case. In the case of an employee who reaches the age of sixty lie is entitled to a pension based on the actuarial report. 46. Are you paying any pensions yet? —Not yet, but two are applying to me for it from Chelsea. There are eight or nine in the other place. This fund includes the officers as well as the 47 The clerical hands, who remain longer as a rule in the service, are likely to draw their pensions longer than the others, I suppose?— Yes, I should say so; but the ordinary worker is not eligible as soon as he comes into our employ. 48. Can you give us the amounts of the various pensions you are paying? —I am not quite sure. The first pension that was paid, I believe, was ten years after the inception of the fund, and it amounted to £25 6s. 3d. a year —about 10s. a week. Of course, the fund was very young, and the man had only been subscribing for about ten years. 49. It was based on the term of the contribution? —Yes. Another pension is £83 Bs. per annum In 1903 one of the senior officers of the company got £271 10s. Another pension is £121 125., and others are as follows: £43 19s. 10d., £68 11s. 3d., £45 4s. 6d., £36 155., £367 17s. 6d., £27 95., £47 9s. 6d., and £382 2s. 50. That is the highest, is it not?— Yes. The first pensioner died this year on the 14th June, having paid in subscriptions about £32. He received altogether £157 3s. 7d. 61. You have given us the details of twelve pensions ranging from about £7 10s. a week to about 10s. a week?— Yes. . . 52. It is to be assumed that the clerical hands joined at the very beginning?—les, a number 53. You say there are two applications in from Chelsea which have not yet been dealt with?— Yes. ' 54. Have you any separate account showing the total contributions of the Chelsea men only to the Provident Fund ?—I have not got it with me. 55. Hon. Mr. Millar.] Is it compulsory on the employees to join this fund? —No. 56. Are there many men who are not members of one fund or the other? —I should not think more than half-a-dozen,' except those who are taken on one day and put off the next. 57. It is purely optional whether they join one or other of the funds or both?— That is so. There is a very old hand in the company who is not a member of the Provident Fund at all. 58. Does he belong to the Sick and' Accident Fund?— Yes. Another employee is not a member of the Sick and Accident Fund, but is a member of the Provident Fund. 59. Can you tell us the total number of hands who belong to the funds?—3l6. There are, of course, a large number of casual hands. . - 60. Can you tell us which fund has the most numerous body of subscribers ?—The Benefit Society. We can admit them at any moment, but before becoming a member of the Provident Fund a man has to be in the company* employment six months. We may have a large number of men on 4—l. 9a.