J. SPEIGHT.]

45

H.— 2l.

6. Will you please make a statement on any lines you think proper?— First of all, I must say I am a voluntary witness. Nobody has asked me to give evidence. I sit near these girls in church, and I, have every chance of observing their conduct. I must say lam rather critical about the behaviour of people in church generally. I do not think I ever saw better behaviour on the part of anybody in church than the behaviour of these girls. They are not only well behaved and becoming, but they are positively ladylike in their behaviour, and reverent in church. I think their conduct is such as could not have been produced by brutal means, and it proves that there must be a mark of confidence between the attendants and the girls. When they first came their singing was pretty coarse, but now it is most refined, and it is a great assistance to the devotional exercises of the church. That, I maintain, is a mark of refinement. With regard to cutting trees, I believe these girls are so fond of it that they actually offered to cut a neighbour's trees down, and when I saw them going to do the work they seemed quite delighted, and I think the lady for whom they did the work was quite delighted too. As a teacher I quite agree with the evidence of Mr. Patten, that the best reformative treatment for girls with criminal tendencies is plenty of good hard work. As to cutting trees down, lam an old bushman myself, and I know what it is, and I have never wondered that Mr. Gladstone and other people were fond of cutting down trees. I am quite sure the girls like it. 7. Mr. Russell.] Do you know that they offered to cut down a neighbour's trees if he would give them the pears?—lt was a lady in the case I referred to, but I dare say that is so. 8. The. Commissioner.] Did you believe much in corporal punishment when you were a teacher?— Yes. Mr. Salter was my Chairman, and I know I got into hot water two or three times. But I know I took a large school when it was in a very low condition and I left it one of the best schools in Christchurch. 9. What were the ages of the eldest girls you had?— About fifteen or sixteen. 10. Did you strap them?—No, it would not be necessary in a common school. Many a girl I never touched and many a boy too. 11. You would not care to have to do it?—No, not in the case of a big girl. 12. As to hair-cutting, we understand it is not altogether a punishment but a preventative. Have you formed any opinion as to the effect it is likely to have on a girl?—l think it is one of the best things that could be done, because you do not hurt them physically. It is only a matter of shame. 13. You think it would be justifiable? —Yes. I think I should do it myself under similar circumstances. 14. Reverting to corporal punishment, and the case of a girl who has only a few more months to remain in the Home, have you thought whether any benefit morally either to the girl or to the institution is to be derived by corporal punishment?—l think it would very much depend upon her conduct. 15. If a girl reaches the age of twenty without being reformed, and is still needing corporal punishment even for the short time she has to remain in the institution, it is not very hopeful, and you would not think the punishment would have much effect? —No, I think not. 16. And might have a brutalising tendency ?—Yes. 17. You agree with me in that?— Possibly. Tuesday, 10th March, 1908. Jane Bean examined on oath. 1. Mr. Salter.] You are the wife of the Rev. Walter Bean? —Yes. 2. You have a Te Oranga girl named A G—— in your service?— Yes. 3. Licensed ?—-Yes, to my husband. 4. Has she been long in your employ?— Four months. 5. During that time have you noticed anything strange about her conduct?—No; her conduct has been very good since I have had her. 6. Any symptoms of violence?— None whatever. 7. You are quite satisfied with her? —Yes, as to her conduct and her work. 8. Have you sent in periodical reports to the Department concerning the girl?— Since the girl has been with me I have never been asked anything either by the Department or the manager about the girl. I have been satisfied with the girl, and I suppose the Department have not taken any further interest in her. 9. Had you any difficulty in getting the girl?— Yes, considerable. 10. Do you remember when you first asked for her?— Yes; I first asked for her about twelve months last June. I happened to meet Mrs. Branting in Freeman's. 11. What took place between you and Mrs. Branting then?—l was wanting a girl, and was not looking to help a Te Oranga girl, and Miss Early had told me she had a girl who would suit me very well, but that she was under the control of Te Oranga authorities. So when I met Mrs. Branting accidentally I asked her about A , and I then got such a dreadful account of her that, like Mr. Sorensen, I dropped the matter. 12. Later on did you apply for her again?— Yes. I formally applied to the Minister about the 14th September and asked him how to set about getting the- girl out. My reason for doing so was that Miss Early still thought the girl all right, 13. Why did you alter your opinion about the girl?— Miss Early, of whose judgment i thought a good deal, as she was generally right on other occasions, insisted that the girl simply wanted a chance, and had not got one at Te Oranga, and that if I took her she would do all right. Miss Early said if she did not turn out all right they would be willing to take her back to the Samaritan Home, so I accordingly wrote to Mr. Fowlds.