1.—14.

J, E. S. LOBD.]

immediate need of an operation for tumorous growth on the intestines, or suppuration would set in and cause death. Another doctor was consulted, who operated next morning for the growth, whicii was found exactly as described, and the operators admitted that the patient was only just saved by the immediate operation. Such men as Sir Oliver Lodge, Sir Alfred R. Wallace, Dr. Hodgkins, Myers, Podmore, and others all acknowledge these powers existing in one form or another. In considering these powers we may appear to be getting beyond our material world, but we are not. Every person is to a great extent the creature of circumstances, and is influenced in many, cases unconsciously by outside forces which, in his delightful ignorance, he often takes credit for producing or creating; but science is gradually proving that man is nothing more than a vibrating receiver. If we, therefore, know of forces, and can prove them to exist, and yet our senses do not register them, does it not prove our limitations, and does it not warrant investigation 1 If the Bill is passed into law, you will be regarded as non-progressive and behind the times, and you will deprive hundreds of sufferers whose complaints do not come within the cures of the orthodox school of physicians of obtaining relief from other sources, either voluntary or professional, and we trust, as legislators, you will recognise our appeal for such cases which cannot be rejected if there is a power above to redress injury or a spirit on earth to administer justice. . 95. The Chairman.] What do 1 understand when you state that outside forces influence the body and our actions?— There is such a thing as energy. Now, energy is attracted. Even to the engine the energy is attracted. You cannot destroy it. It is a natural element just as much as any of our solids. 96. In other words, you say that a man is not master of his own actions?—l go so far as to say he is not. 97. You object to the constitution of the Board set up under this Bill?—I do, sir. 98. Why?— For the simple reason that the medical men have too much influence. I maintain that this ability of which I speak is not necessarily within the province of a medical man, but may be a gift in any individual. Another reason is that the medical orthodox schools have shown us up to the present that they have attempted to frustrate the aims of such societies as the Psychical Research Society. As an instance, let me quote from the book, " Twenty Years of Psychical Research": "In 1891 the British Medical Association appointed eleven of its members to act as a committee ' to investigate the nature of the phenomena of hypnotism, its value as a therapeutic agent, and the property of using it.' The following year the committee presented a unanimous report. The first sentence of the report runs thus : ' The committee, having completed such investigation of hypnotism as time permitted, have to report that they have satisfied themselves of the genuineness of the hypnotic state.' The report was referred back for further consideration In 1893 it was again presented, with the addition of an important appendix consisting of ' some documentary evidence on which the report was based.' Even then, at the annual meeting of the association, an amendment was moved and seconded, ' That the report should lie on the table.' Afterwards they were of opinion that, when used for therapeutic purposes, its employment should be applied to qualified medical men. If eleven years ago hypnotism was known, and magnetism was known, investigation of them ought not to have been discouraged by medical men. 99. You mean that medical men are conservative? —Yes. We had an instance this morning showing that medical men are afraid to own that they recognise these powers. I must admit that there is a great deal of controversy as to the terms; some metaphysicians hold that there is r,o such thing as magnetism, while others hold that there is both suggestion and magnetism. Now, if a person has the power of giving a suggestion whicii is going to be forcible, is going to be effective, then I contend personally that there must be some impelling force. I hold that that is magnetic force. It never would have the desired effect if there was no such conductor. Results prove that there is sometimes in the induction of hypnotic phenomena some agency at work which is neither ordinary nervous stimulation (monotonous or sudden) nor suggestion conveyed by any ordinary channel to the subject's mind. 100. The same applies to the effect of public speaking?— Quite so. 101. Do you think an association of metaphysicians should be formed? —I most certainly do. 102. Do you think an examination is necessary for mental healers, in physiology and anatomy, in to other qualifications? —We find that there are men who are totally ignorant and yet have this gift. I know a man who can hardly write his own name and yet he can sense a disease. I have known him go to a complete stranger and ask if he had pains in the stomach, and when he said he had this man has said, " I sensed it." The only thing I could suggest in all fairness would be that those who have been practising for a certain time should be allowed to form an association, and let those who are least competent gravitate out of it. We all know that ability must stand in the long-run, whether in the medical or any other profession. 103. With a view to suppressing men who are nothing but frauds, who advertise themselves as mental healers, and so on, what would you suggest?— That the association should deal vith such men. They are more able to say whether a man is capable or not than the medical fraternity. 104. How could you tell whether a man has the ability to act as a metaphysician ?—You would have to take all the conditions of the case. Possibly you would have to put his powers into practice. 105. With patients?— Yes. Supposing he was posing as a diagnosing medium, such men as Helps and Shaw would know beyond doubt whether he was worthy of the name. • 106. But Messrs. Helps and Shaw are not medical men?— Quite soj but if you know of cne man who is capable of diagnosing disease he could test the power of the other. 107. Should not a man have some knowledge of diseases before being placed in the. position of passing judgment upon a man's ability to diagnose?—l do not think there is anything required beyond the study of anatomy and physiology.

9—l. 14.

65