I.—9a.

p. j. o'regan.]

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to say, if the Court sat alone without the assistance of the Board, the Court would have to take longer time, certainly. 21. Will you tell us what the provision of the law is in connection with adding experts to the membership of the Board?.—The present Act provides for that. It provides for special Boards of Conciliation. 22. Either party can now ask for a special Board, can it not?— Yes, certainly. There is special provision in the statute for it. 23. Have you, in your experience, found great difficulty in consequence of not having experts in the specific trade on the Board ?—I am bound to say No, although no two disputes are alike. In my opinion, continuity in the personnel of the Board is an important factor in the efficacy of the tribunal, and a person of common-sense, by visiting the works, while he may not be an expert, can get enough information to enable him to arrive at a very fair decision. 24. By seeing the. works and hearing the discussion by the experts ?—Quite so. 25. You hold, then, using your own word, that there should be continuity on any Board that is set up?—lt would be a valuable factor. 26. It would be a mistake to have a Board set up to settle every dispute?— There may be something to be said in favour of it, especially in mining districts, but I am bound to say that, so far as the industrial conditions in a place like Wellington are concerned, I do not believe the Industrial Councils of experts will be an improvement. 27. And in the case you mention, such as a mining district, where it may be necessary to have experts, the law at present provides for that if either party likes to take advantage of the law? — That is so. I would simply like to say that the existing state of things is wrong, and, in my opinion, the two radical defects I have mentioned require altering. Until the Boards have received a fair test, they should not be called a failure. 28. The continual appeals to the Arbitration Court after the matter has been practically settled by the Board, and the long period of delay which ensues ?—Yes; but the long period of delay is the inevitable consequence of the Court getting more work than it can do. . 29. Mr. Barber.] The long period of delay would be avoided to a large extent by the recommendations of the Board taking effect as soon as they are given?— Yes. 30. Then there would be practically no delay, because until it was reversed the award of the Board would be in existence? —Yes. 31. And that would do away'to a large extent with the delay?— That is so. 32. The power of appeal is what you strongly object to?— Yes, the facility for appeal. 33. The Chairman.] Do you think it is to the interests of the employers to have these delays because during the time they are paying according to the previous rates?— Yes. 34. And no award comes into effect until it is made by the Court itself? —Yes. When I say it is to their interest, I mean to their immediate interest, and not to their ultimate interest, because the delay leads to a considerable amount of unrest that is not to the interest of any one. 35. Mr. Hardy.] Do you not think that time heals all sores?— That is a truism; but, like all •truisms, it requires to be read with exceptional cases. 36. Irritation arises which time allays? —That is so, generally speaking; but I do not think so in this case, because the dispute has to come to a head. There has to be finality at some time or other, and the parties never forget the fact that it is pending. 37. In settling cases, are they always settled in the interests of the employers or of the employees?— That is one of the greatest difficulties in connection with the whole subject, because the matters that come before the Board or the Court are not so much questions of law as questions of fact, and the man in the street is as much entitled to have an opinion as an educated man, and for that reason I do not think any industrial tribunal is able to please everybody. A number of people would dissent from any decision given. 38. Are all the cases founded on good grounds when they come before the Board?— There, again, it is a matter of opinion, and it give me an opportunity to point out a difficulty. No dispute can exist to which a union is not a party. In fact, the Act might be paraphrased as "an Act to encourage the Formation of Unions." If the unions were to rescind their incorporation that would be tantamount to repealing the statute altogether. As I have said, the Industrial District of Wellington covers half the North Island, while the headquarters of the unions are generally in Wellington. The first sitting in a dispute takes place in Wellington, and there is considerable interest evinced on both sides. When wo get up to Palmerston North, and Wanganui, and Napier, and other intermediate districts, the commonest objection from the employers is that they have had no dispute with their men, and they object to the whole proceeding. There is something to be said in favour of that contention, but the word "dispute" must be given a technical meaning which must be given to the Arbitration Act. In the country, apart from Wellington City, the industrial conditions are different, and in consequence difficulty very often arises. That is to say, the same grievances do not exist in the country as in the city, and in consequence of that a number of people have asked for special awards; but my experience has been that if you try to give effect to that desire, the first objection to it comes from the employers. Take, for instance, the letter-press-printing trade. Canvassers from the city .go all through the North Island for orders, and the employers in the trade, with some show of reason, say that they want to be put on a footing of equality with all the others with regard to wages and hours. In some disputes the same argument does not apply, and the only practical way of surmounting this difficulty is for the Board to take local conditions into consideration in framing their recommendations. 39. You think there are more disputes in the centres than in the out-districts?—Yes. 40. Would that be on account of the friction caused by the,professional agitator, who. is to be found where most honey is to be picked up ?—I am bound to say that the Act is developing an element of professionalism on both sides.