I.—4a.

40

[h. D. MOEPETH.

161. These were your own samples, sent to him?— That is so, but I fail to see that Dr. Maclaurin or any one else could come to the conclusion that they were evidently from the surface. 162. Mr. Herries.] You had better explain how you took them? —This report of Dr. Maclaurin's is before the Committee, and I am only seeking to point out that it is rather a gratuitous assumption on the part of anybody. I will explain how these samples were taken. Our Engineer made a kind of spear, attached to which was a pipe, and it was arranged in such a way that when you jammed it down into the surface of the bed of the river and withdrew it }'ou had a cupful of samples. 163. How far did the spear go into the bed of the river?—l suppose the head of the spear would be about 3 in. in, and I suppose that to get the samples we should have to lift, at least 2 in. or 3 in., or so. It went into the substance on an average of, say, 4 in. to 6 in. 164. The Chairman.] How do you judge that?— You could not judge at all. It depended on the force you exerted, and the possibilities the lauuch afforded; she was jumping about. I may point out that the tailings are very much harder to penetrate than the gravel. We had much more difficulty in getting a decent sample from the. bed of the Ohinemuri River than from the bed of the Waihou. 165. Mr. Bennet.] Do you contend that these tailings, coming down the river and being washed on to the land, are not detrimental to the farming interest ?—They are not washed on to the land to any extent, but merely about the banks of the river'in the farming district. Where the tailings have distributed themselves all over the land is above Paeroa, and. some land has been spoilt by the deposit of tailings between the township and Mackaytown. 166. I am asking the question generally, not with regard to any one particular place?—l meant to admit that there is some small amount of injury being done to the farming interests. 167. The Chairman.] Mr. Bennet asks if it does not do damage where the tailings spread over the land?—Oh, yes, if the tailings spread over the land that does do damage. It would be a question of degree, of course. 168. Mr. Bennet.] AVould it not be likely to be worse as time goes on, when the river is getting silted up?—l do not know that it will, because they are grinding the tailings very much finer than they were doing. See this sample of the tailings that they are actually turning out now [produced]. Those tailings will not spread as much as the former tailings. That is my point. They are so fine that they are carried down by the flow of the river where the heavy tailings of times past would have been arrested. 169. Mr. Herries.] You do not represent the mining companies at all?— No. 170. You really represent the Borough of AYaihi? —Yes. 171. And the settlers of Waihi? —The petitioners. 172. The mining companies are not represented at all in this inquiry?— No. They relyentirely on their legal rights. 173. Every one admits that damage has been done to some of the farmers as far as the Ohinemuri River is concerned? —Yes, if you call them farmers. I would not quite call them farmers. I thought they were more suburban holders. 174. Have you formed any estimate of the damage done on the Ohinemuri?—lt is hard to say what the damage arising from the actual silting-up of the river is. Do you mean the land covered by tailings and rendered practically useless? 175. Yes?—As an outside estimate I should say 30 acres —approximately. 176. That is on the Ohinemuri?—Yes. 177. As far as your knowledge is concerned, is there any land that has been rendered useless on the AVathou? —None that I know of. 178. Do you know the Waihou River? —Yes. I have been up and down it, through Netherton, more than once. 179. Was there land at Netherton damaged by the flood in January?—l visited it some time afterwards, and I could see very little trace of tailings. 180. 1 meant to say, was it. damaged by the flood? —Yes, most decidedly, by water. 181. But you did not see any land damaged by tailings or sand? —Practically none. 182. When did you go over it?—ln March 183. And if any land had been destroyed, you would have seen it?—lf the land had been turned over I should not have seen it. 184. Is it your contention that, the actual flood would have occurred whether the river had been declared a sludge-channel or not?— Most decidedly. 185. The actual flood damage is not the result of the river ?—The natural conditions give rise to the flood damage. Floods occur very much higher up, miles and miles away from where there is any talk of silt at all. In the Te Aroha and surrounding districts in times past there have been miles of country under water, and it is ridiculous to suppose that that is caused by silt. 186. It is said that there is a bank of silt at the Junction :is that so?— Yes. 187. Have you seen that bank? —Yes. 188. To what extent is it?-—The area above water is very small, but it is a considerable bank of tailings. 189. Is that across the Ohinemuri or the Waihou? —It is parallel with the course of the Waihou. It has formed longways, as it were, with the river, not across it. It does not form a bar to the entrance of the Waihou River at, the Junction. 190. It is a continuation of that island?— No. I think really that what caused this was some attempt of the County Engineer's to improve the scour. 191. This is Mr.' Perham's plan that I have here: is this the bar [indicated on plan]?—-Yes. 192. Is this bar composed of tailings, or is it composed of pumice sand?— Just as jovl see it on the map. There are tailings here [place indicated]. I have not the slightest doubt that the