I.—4a.

Thursday, 12th September, 1907. William Gray Nicholls (No. 1), examination continued. 1. Mr. Seddon. In what capacity do you come here—as representing a Council, or personally? You do not represent yourself, do you, as one of the people who have suffered from the silting-up ?— 1 appear in both capacities, as Chairman of the County Council and also as one heavily interested in this matter. 2. In what way—you own land, do'you?—Yes. 3. On what river?—On both rivers. 4. What sort of land is it? —On one river—the Waihou—we have several blocks. There is one block called the Waihou West. It was cleared some time ago and fenced off, but through the damming-up of the Waihou River the water goes all over it. 5. What is the area of that?— 277 acres. 6. It is owned by you personally?— Yes. 7. What was it used as before—was it grazing-oountry or cultivated? —It was grazing-land. 8. How long have you owned that land? —It belonged first of all to my wife's people—she inherited it from her ancestors. 9. In what year did the silt first appear on it?— With respect to this particular block, the water dammed up at the junction owing to the silt, and it dammed right back and overflowed this place. 10. There is no silt comes on the place 2-—No, but it is flooded with water. 11. What is the nature of this silt? It is said to be from up-country drains. Is that the cause of it, do you think?— The quartz silt is from the mines. 12. Are you sure it is from the mines? —Yes. There is' no doubt about it. 13. You spoke yesterday about the stoppage of shipping. The ships I believe come up to Paeroa at present, do they not?— No. They come up to.a place called Te Puke: That is seven miles by river from Paeroa. The vessels that are running there now, although they are of larger capacity, were built specially to run to a place called the Junction, which is nearer Paeroa; and they had to shift from there in consequence of the river-bed being filled up. They now come to Te Puke, two or three miles lower down. 14. What is the nature of the ships now in comparison with the ones you. remember that used to come up previously? Are they smaller of larger?— They are larger, but they were built specially for the trade, to draw less water. 15. You are quite certain that the river-bed has silted up. What is your proof of that? Have you watched the landmarks or anything like that?— Yes. 16. What can you point to particularly? —There is a rock of which I spoke yesterday, that used to be uncovered. 17. Absolutely?— Yes, fully a foot. Now —well, it has not been seen for the last ten years. 18. You know exactly where the rock was and you say that the covering-up of it is due to the silting-up ?—To the silting-up and the raising of the river-bed. Samuel Jameson Laughlin made a statement and was examined. (No. 2.) 19. The Chairman.] What are you, Mr. Laughlin?—A farmer, residing at Netherton. 20. Are you one of the petitioners ?—Yes, and one of the sufferers. 21. You are chairman of the Farmers' Union there, I think?— Yes. 22. Will you make your statement now, please?—l have been appointed by the residents of the Thames Valley as their delegate to support the petition to Parliament with regard to the silting question, and hope that you in your wisdom can give us some relief. I can speak from my own experience as lam a sufferer from the silting-up of the river. It is impossible to estimate the heavy losses sustained by the settlers, but I can produce a list furnished by some of them. I can talk from experience from both miners' and farmers' points of view, as I am a certificated minemanager and was formerly a battery-manager for a number of years on the Thames, where I was associated with mining from boyhood. From the farmers' point of view, I have had my present farm over thirteen years, and have continuously lived on it for the last nine years, so I can say I have served my apprenticeship to farming. I produce a list of the miners who have become farmers. Many of the miners are working at the higher wages obtained by mining in the hopes of having small farms to fall back on. That miners can make good farmers can be proved by the number who supply our creamery in the Thames Valley. When the mining goes the population goes with it, but the land is always there, and the population on the land is a settled one. Allow me, o-entlemen, to read some remarks made by Sir Joseph Ward some little time ago: "It was to the fand that we must look for the material side of our progress, producing as it did, directly or indirectly, everything that we required. Anything hostile to the interests of people on the land must therefore also affect all other classes of the community." Why destroy the land that the pioneers with stout hearts have carved, as it were, out of the dense bush amid hardships untold? Why not do something to save the land and let the farmers live as well as the miners? I have travelled over the district and inspected the damage done, and can say that at the present rate the rivers are silting up the farmers in a few years will have to abandon their properties. The question has become a burning one in the district. The dairying industry is one of New Zealand's greatest industries and our rich fertile valleys are likely to be to the fore when the rich gold-mines are a thing of the past. Last year we petitioned for relief and got no answer. We are now petitioning again and feel sure that now the matter has been placed before you in its true light

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