H.—29.

126

[j. H. SQOTEES.

154. He gives a receipt?—Yes, for everything that goes into the ship. The tally-clerks hand him a list of what they have tallied, and he signs for it. Sometimes the juniors sign for what they have tallied themselves. 155. Could he let us know what cargo was in that special hold?—Yes, he would know where each tally-clerk had put his cargo in. 156. Just as if he had talked the hatch himself?—Yes. 157. Mr. Foster] I understood previously that the officers did not tally the cargo?—They do not. 158. But they give a receipt for what they have not seen?—That is so. 159. How do they know it is there? —They have the tally-clerk's word for it. 160. The tally-clerk is under the direction of the officer?—He is under the instructions of the company. 161. If the tally-clerk makes a mistake, is the officer responsible?—They cannot say the officer is responsible. Before the bills of lading are made out they must have the officer's receipt. We must sign for it and take the people's word. I have been second officer in this ship for two years, and I have done a good deal of that sort of thing myself. 162. Captain Blackburne] That is not the case in London: the officer does not sign for it there?—Yes, he has to sign the Customs notes of transhipment cargo, and all this sort of thing comes down at the last moment, The Customs officers bring it in big sheets, and it takes two or three hours to sign sometimes, and he does not know what he is signing half the time. If he did not sign it there would be a row. Of course, we know the company would take any responsibility in a case of that kind if there was any trouble. Sidney James Plummer sworn and examined. (No. 67.) 163. The Chairman] What is your name?—Sidney James Plummer. 164 You are the second officer on board the " Rimutaka " ?—Yes. 165. Were you second officer when she went Home last trip?—No; I joined her at Home after the cargo was out. 166. You were an officer on board the "Waimate" at the time of the fire in Napier?—No, going Home last voyage. 167. Where did you join her?—l was in her two voyages before that. 168. Were you on board at Napier when the fire took place?—No, I was not. 169. We were given to understand that you knew a good deal about the fire?—Not the Napier fire, only going Home last voyage. 170. And that had nothing to do with the Napier fire? —No. 171. Was not the cargo afire going Home?—Yes, in the wool. 172. Can you tell us something about that?—Well, we found we were on fire two days before we got to Teneriffe, and, of course, we were fitted with the Clayton fire-extinguisher. We started it going and kept it running for fifteen hours, and the smoke stopped, and all we could smell was the sulphur, and we plugged everything up and then stopped running it. We then ran into Teneriffe but did not open up the hatches at all, and after we left again and got about opposite Vigo we saw smoke coming out of the ventilators. 173. How long after? —About two days after leaving Teneriffe. It was stronger this time than before, and we started the engine again and ran it for about two hours, and it stopped. We kept the engine going for four hours and then stopped it for six, and we went into Plymouth only because we wanted more sulphur. 174. When you arrived and the cargo was broken out, was any of it still showing signs of fire? —Yes, in the centre of the bales. There was one bale there that, so far as the outside was concerned, was intact, but as soon as we cut the bands smoke and steam issued from it, and you could see the thing smouldering in the centre of the bale. 175. Was there any fire? —No, no fire, just smouldering black—it was like cinder inside. 176. Any smoke coming from it?—Yes, when we opened it from the hold. 177. What sort of smoke was it? Might it have been vapour, or was it black smoke?—No, it was not black smoke —it might have been steam; but when we opened the bale there was the black centre. 178. Did it give you the impression of being cinder, or was it merely blackened from excessive heat ?—Oh, heat, I should say. 179. I want to distinguish between burning and mere blackening, the process of decomposition in the wool?—It is hard to say. I should say, judging from the look it had, it was fire. 180. The smoke that was coming from the ventilators in the hold, did you judge that to be smoke pr vapour ?—Smoke. 181. Would it leave lamp-black on the ventilator?—There was no mistaking it if you got your nose against it. 182. You are satisfied it was smoke from the fire? —Yes. 183. Do you happen to remember the brand on a bale or two of the wool that was in such a condition ?—No. 184. If you had a list could you pick it out?—No. I was only third officer on the "Waimate," and it had really nothing to do with me. 185. Had you not sufficient interest to look at the brands?—Yes—that is, in London. [Witness marked certain brands which were on board, but he could not state whether they were in the hold where the fire was.] 186. Could you say whether they were amongst the affected?—l could not say. I remember that mark on board, but I could not state whether it was in that hold. 187. Captain Blackburne] You actually saw the wool put out from the "Waimate" on that occasion?—Yes, in London.