E.2J.SBVANS.J

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85. I should infer from what you say as to the " Gothic " that, whatever originated the fire, it must have originated in the cargo?—Yes, and 1 will go so far as to say that the primary cause was in the cargo itself before shipment. 86. Captain Blackburne] Are there any electric-light wires leading through the holds?—No, we have electric lights throughout all the ships; but, as regards the holds, they are lit by portable clusters, which are lowered down the holds. 87. 1 mean wires leading up through the holds from the engine-room?—They would never go through the cargo-space. At times we have outward steerage passengers in the upper deck, but when we put them off the wires are disconnected, so that they could not be connected by any one by accident or otherwise. 88. I have heard from outside talk that occasionally they continue loading these ships while it is raining heavily?—We do not do that in spite of pressure or urgency. If it comes on wet we stop. And as regards the shipment of flax—practically all cargo, in fact—Captain Bendall used to see that it was never shipped in wet weather. 89. But now that Captain Bendall is not any longer looking after that?—We are just as careful in that respect as when Captain Bendall was in office. Of course, we should not stop loading for a mere shower of rain. 90. Of course, if that were the case a good deal of rain might accumulate in the hatchways? —Yes, if they were left exposed for any considerable time; but I do not think any prudent man would allow it. Thomas Gilmore Keanb sworn and examined. (No. 11.) 91. The Chairman] What are you, Captain Keane? —I am Assistant Superintendent of Mercantile Marine, in the Shipping Office at present. 92. The members of the Commission believe that you can give them some information relative to the matters the subject of this inquiry, and particularly regarding the loading of wool, and in relation to the unfortunate occurrences which arose from the loading of wool, or flax, or tow. We shall be pleased to hear what you can tell us of your own experience?—Flax and tow I do not know anything about, but 1 have seen a good deal of wool within the last five years in South Africa and New Zealand. 1 saw a fire in South Africa in 1902 on board the " Dunrobin Castle," when she was loading wool in the fore hold at Durban. They started in the forenoon at about half past 11. The wool had been lying in the lighters all night covered with tarpaulins, and, as is usual in the tropics, there was a very heavy dew. The wool was damp in consequence of the dew. Well, they started and put in a few tiers, and after about four tiers were in they threw the other bales down on top of them. While we were at luncheon the wool in the fore hold took fire, and we had to put the hose on it. The wool had been in the wool-shed on the wharf for some time, but whether it was the friction of throwing the bales into the hold or the damp caused by the dew that caused the wool to fire I do not know, or whether it was both the damp and the friction is a moot point. 93. Mr. Foster] Did you attribute the fire to the damp from the dew?—l attributed it to the damp condition of the wool. Of course, only one bale took fire, but thirteen or more were damaged by the water. 94. And do you think the dew was sufficient to cause the wool to take fire? —No; water will take a long time to penetrate wool, cotton, or textile cargoes; but I think that the exterior of the bale being wet before loading, or when being loaded into the vessel, is as dangerous as the interior of the bales being wet. 95. Were the bales covering the wool you refer to very greasy? —You could not detect any signs of it outside. They were baled in gunny bagging—burlap. 96. You think that a damp covering in itself is dangerous when with grease?—Yes, I think so. 97. It would add to the inflammability of it if there was grease on it, too? —Undoubtedly. - 98. Captain Blackburne] Was there an inquiry into the cause of the fire you spoke of?—ln the company's office. 99. Do you know what conclusion they came to—whether they put it down to spontaneous combustion? —Had the bales not been damp at the time it would not have occurred. Nearly all those who were present were of the opinion that that was so. 100. The Chairman] That the cause was partly due to the dampness and to the friction caused by throwing the bales down the lower hold? —I have seen a bale of jute being shot down a greasy plank, and, the outsides of the bale being wet with dew, I saw it catch fire as it slid down the plank. 101. You had the damp and the oil both present there?—Yes, and the friction, too. 102. Mr. Foster] The bale of wool you refer to as having caught fire—did you see the inside of it?—Yes, when it was taken on to the wharf. The fire seemed to have eaten round the outside of the bagging, but the inside of the bale was almost intact. 103. Was there no possibility of the fire having been caused by a match? —No. Of course, there the ships are all loaded and discharged by Kaffirs, and they are inveterate smokers; but they are watched very carefully, and sent out of the hold and the hatches put on in the lunch-hour. 104. The Chairman] That is always done? —Yes, during the meal-hour. 105. Mr. Foster] Are you familiar with the handling of wool here? —No; I have seen none handled here at all. 106. Captain Blackburne] You saw some bales of cotton on fire, 1 believe?—Yes I saw some bales of cotton on fire in New Orleans, and inside the bales were found handfuls of lucifers. That was the "Tornado" loading with cotton in New Orleans in 1884. During that one year there were thirty-eight ships afire in the port, all loading cotton. That ship, the " Tornado," was totally destroyed —ship and cargo.