G.—s.

58

[i. HUTANA.

these trades would be suitable for the Maoris. The Maoris have now been carrying on their Maori Councils for five years, educating themselves in Pakeha ways. In the same way they should have a wider scope in regard to education. I want the industrial side of education given more attention to in the Te Aute College. We have been told that Ngata and Pomare are the fruits of the teaching at Te Aute. I say No; it was not so. It was because their parents had money, and they were sent to higher schools to finish their education. There are plenty of children just as able as Ngata, but owing to their parents having no money those children have had to go back to the kainga, and therefore the knowledge they have gained was practically useless to them. I think in these days you ought to widen the scope of education for the Maoris. I have nothing to say against Archdeacon Williams or Mr. Thornton. A large number of children from other tribes come to Te Aute. It is only right that those tribes should do something to strengthen the school; they should give either land or money. If the outside tribes do not do that, I think the Government ought to give more money to strengthen the school. 3. Apart from the education given at the school, have the Natives any fault to find with the management of the estate? —No; I know nothing of any objections by the Maoris as regards the trustees; but I know that in 1877 the Natives expressed their opinion that the land was not properly leased, and could be cut up, and thus increase the revenue. 4. Is it your opinion and the opinion of those you represent that a larger revenue could be got from this estate by having it subdivided ?—We think the revenue from rents would be increased by cutting up the land. That was the opinion the Maoris held in 1877, and from that till the present day I have seen no reason to change my opinion. 5. Mr. Hogg.] I suppose that what you and the other Maoris want is to see more people on Te Aute?—Yes. 6. You think it would be an advantage to have more homes there? —Yes; if there were more buildings there would be a higher rental given for the land. 7. Do you think if there were a number of farms there instead of the present big station it would have an educational effect of a good character on the boys?— Yes, that is one of the things I would like to see. 8. Would they likely be benefited if there was agriculture, cropping, gardening, and fruitgrowing carried on there ? —Yes. I do not think so very much of farming being taught the children —a Maori can easily teach himself; but there are other trades of which the Pakeha possesses a knowledge that I would like to see established there. 9. Are there many Maori families excluded from the benefits of the Te Aute College?—l have heard that some people have taken their children to Te Aute and they have not been admitted; and, again, some go there for some years and return to their homes without finishing their education, and in some cases they have again asked for admission, but the request has not been granted. 10. Mr. Lee.] If I understand you aright, you mean that those best boys should be like Pomare and Ngata?—Yes. 11. Then there are many boys who are not able to do the higher work who could be taught something which would be useful to them in after-life? —Yes. 12. Some would farm the land. Those who are to farm the land should be taught something about the soil, about plants, and how they are grown?— The master would have no difficulty in picking out his pupils suited for the different occupations. 13. You would have professional men, the farming class, traders, and engineering; and in the case of the latter the students would be taught something about steam-power, electricity, and the working of metals ?—Yes. We want them to learn as much as the Japanese have learnt. 14. The Chairman.] Let me read the following extract from an article in the Nineteenth Century, April, 1906, page 678, by R. G. Wilberforce, on "Education for Country Children": " The time is come when it ought to be recognised that all boys are not equally endowed for their life struggle. Some indeed are fit to labour with their brain, but others are fitted to work with their bodies, some few to work with both " ?—Yes, that is so. It will not do in these times to train a boy in brain-work only. 15. Mr. Lee.] All they could teach a boy in the school would be the principles of a trade; they could not teach him the trade itself? —Yes; as long as they put him in the way of learning a trade it is all right. 16. Mr. Eliott.] Have you been taught a trade?—No; I was never at school. 17. From what do you derive your income?—l get my living out of the land by hard work. 18. Do you object to European boys going to Te Aute? —Yes; I would like European boys not to be admitted. 19. Why?—lf European children are admitted the master will give his best attention to them, and neglect the Maori boys. 20. The Chairman .] Why do you say that? —I have learnt it from observation of other schools. I think it would be better not to admit European children to Te Aute. There are plenty of European schools, whereas there is only one Maori school. 21. Mr. Eliott.] You said you would like Te Ante to be subdivided into farms, and, of course, there would be bound to be families there: where are those children to go to school?—lf there is a European population there they can erect a school of their own. Pera Wheraro examined. 22. The Chairman.] How long have you been in this district?—l have lived for seventy years in Hawke's Bay. I know what the old people said when they gave the land. I was here then. I am speaking on behalf of myself and the people. They asked me to represent them because I heard the old men talk about these things. The main reason for giving the land was, first of all, their great desire for religion to be taught and the inducement held out to the children being taught the