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169. How long ? —Two or three months ; but I and others left because of the severe master who was then in charge. 170. Where do the Maori children at Te Aute go to? —Five or six go to the Government school. 171. Mr. Lee.] Have the Maoris anything to say as to the education given at Te Aute: does it meet their wants, or do they say that some of the education given there is unnecessary ? —The Maoris approve of what is being taught there. The Maoris think that they give too much religious instruction —that they might limit that. 172. Are there many boys or girls who wish to go to Te Aute or Hukarere who cannot go there because there is no room?—I have not heard of that. 173. Mr. Eliott.] Would the Maoris object to the land being subdivided into farms and let to Europeans, so long as the rent went to the school?—I think that the Maoris woud not like that. 174. The Chairman.] Do you say, speaking generally, that the school as it now exists, with the endowment, has fulfilled the expectations of those who gave the land for the purposes of education?— Yes, except that they did not carry out the part as to the making of saddles and the weaving —the industrial education. 175. Do the Natives wish that some of the teaching in the school should be dropped and that some of this technical'education be substituted? —Yes. 176. What portion would they like dropped?—l do not know what to suggest. 177. Do you prefer that the Maoris should say fewer prayers and do more work?—l did refer to that a little while ago. 178. You believe more in industrial training than in religious instruction?-—I would not entirely abandon religion—a fair proportion of religion is good. 179. But some of the time devoted to religious exercises would be more useful if devoted to learning trades? —Yes. 180. Mr. Ngata.] What was the land given to the Rev. Mr. Williams for?— For a school. 181. What was one of the reasons that the land was given to the Rev. Mr. Williams?— For religious purposes: that is one of the reasons, as well as education.

Thursday, 24th May, 1906. Ihaia Hutana examined. 1. The Chairman.] Where do you live? —At Waipawa, near Te Aute. I have been in this district from my youth up. I was not educated at Te Aute, but I have often been to see the school. 2. What do you wish to say to the Commission?—l will first state what I have heard the old people say in regard to Te Aute. I have heard them say that the land was given for the purposes of educating the children —to teach them the new religion, European civilisation, and technical education, such as farming, blacksmithing, working with machinery, sewing clothes, and suchlike. It was also said that there would be cattle on the estate, and their carcases would feed the children. The wool was to be used for making clothing. That was the reason why such a large area of land was handed over. The old people were very glad of the prospect in front of the children. A meeting was held at Te Hauke in 1877. It was held for the purpose of protesting against the manner in which the school was conducted, and it was felt that the reasons for which the land had been given had not been carried out. I was present at the meeting. All the Hawke's Bay people were assembled there. The old people asked at that meeting that the land be handed back to them, because the objects for which the land had been given had not been carried out. Resolutions were passed at the meeting. A petition was drawn up and sent to Parliament. Some of the Natives went to Wellington in support of the petition [see petition of Hapuku and others, Parliamentary Paper 1.-3 a, 1877.] The Committee of the House reported that they had no recommendation to make. The petition set out that the petitioners objected to the manner in which the school was conducted, and they recommended that the land be cut up into smaller areas and be leased to more tenants. In consequence of the report of the Committee, the Natives took no further steps. Some of the Europeans in Hawke's Bay supported the petition. I come here partly on my own account, and also as representing the Maoris. When they heard that I wished to make a statement they said, " You also represent us while you are there." I would like a technical and industrial school established there. Now a child may be taught at Te Aute, and perhaps it is found that he is a suitable lad to become a minister of the church and he is sent on to Te Rau College at Gisborne, and he becomes a minister. That gives effect to everything so far as religion is concerned. That is very good. But I would also like to see some of the other promises made to the Natives when the land was handed over given effect to. But the master finds that a particular boy has not a strong brain, but that boy may have a strong body; then let that boy be taught suitable work, such as farming. I desire to see the scope of the school widened. We will say there are seventy children at Te Aute — perhaps more. I consider that the most of those children are wasting their time. A number of those boys are suitable to be taught other things than they are being taught. Owing to some children not being smart, they have been sent back to their parents, and the children have learned nothing. Had there been a technical school there those boys would have been taught something useful. It is thirty years since Te Aute has been carried on in the way it is now, and I think it is time there was some change. I wish Te Aute to always remain a Native school, because there is only one Maori school for the Hawke's Bay District. Of course I know there is a want of money. I leave it to the trustees to improve the estate, and obtain the necessary revenue to carry out these things. There is another suggestion I would like to make. All the teachers at Te Aute should be certificated teachers. I know that the only salvation of the Maoris is to train their hands to work, so that they may be able to earn their living the same as the Pakeha. The Pakeha is taught from his youth up to earn his living. It is said that the Maori is a lazy race. Perhaps the teaching of

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