G. MACMUBEAY.]

31

G.—s.

say I am satisfied with. I would go further, and I would say this: that I think the greatest failure I can remember associated with St. Stephen's School was one of these boys. 183. Is that many years ago?— Not many years ago. Ido not like to go into particulars, in case the stigma should attach to particular names. 184. I want to be sure that the failure was more than a mere failure in discipline?—lt was failure in career that I have strongly in my mind. Before the adjournment, in response to the Chairman's inquiry as to whether any one present wished to lay any matter before the Commission, Mr. Ellison said, —I have been appointed by the Natives to listen to the evidence and to represent them before the Commission, and at present I do not see any necessity for a sitting out of Napier. The Chairman: Whatever questions the Natives wish to bring before us will be fully considered. The trust was established for the benefit of them and their children, and we shall listen to what they have to say, if it is within the scope of the Commission. I should like to get, if it is possible, the feeling of the Natives in regard to this question of manual and. technical education. Mr. Ellison: The only point I can see so far is in connection with the appointment of a Native representative on the trust. The Chairman: Are the Natives satisfied with the present lease? Mr. Ellison : I understand the position, but I do not think any of the other Natives realise the position. lam in sympathy with Archdeacon Williams.

Saturday, 19th May 1906. John Beckett Fielder further examined. 1. The Chairman.] Since the adjournment you have turned up a letter which you now wish to produce?— Yes. In order to show that the trustees did take action in reference to technical education I produce copies of letters sent by me as corresponding trustee, and the replies received thereto [Exhibit No. 27]. 2. You also produce a letter from Sir W. R. Russell in reference to the renewal of the lease to Archdeacon Williams? —Yes. It is as follows: " Flaxmere, Hastings, Hawke's Bay, New Zealand, 29th November, 1902. —Dear Fielder, —I think we ought to put the lease of the Te Aute Estate on a permanent footing. Poor Cotterill has gone and J. N. Williams is not likely to be returning soon, so virtually you and I are the responsible people. I shall be in Napier within a week, and will then call and see you. Meantime turn the matter round in your head.—Very truly yours, W. R. Russell." 3. We had some evidence from the Archdeacon yesterday in reference to a new house that is being built on the estate: do you know under what arrangements it is being built?—lt has never come before the trustees as a body. Of course, individually, some of the trustees may have been spoken to, but I only heard of the matter for the first time yesterda}- when listening to the Archdeacon. 4. Can you ascertain on w-hat conditions that house is being built?— Yes. Thomas Hall examined. 5. The Chairman.] You are District Land Registrar and Registrar of Deeds for Hawke's Bay? —Yes. 6. And the titles connected with Te Aute College and Hukarere Schools are recorded in the books in your office?— Yes. 7. Have you had a plan prepared of the Te Aute Estate? —I have had a plan compiled from the recorded copies of the Crown grant, and I produce it [Exhibit No. 28], It shows the original grants and dealings, and so forth. 8. Does this plan show the original grants?— Yes, separately. 9. The plan includes the land in the original grants with the exception of 870 acres edged with blue?— Yes, that is within the red. All within the red represents what remains of the original grants. 10. But the 870 acres within the blue lines were reconveyed to the Crown?— That is so. 11. The 382 acres to the south of the main block were added? —Yes. 12. Do you produce another plan?— Yes [Exhibit No. 29]. It is a copy of the original authentic survey plan. The total area of the two blocks is 6,561 acres. I may say that this cannot be relied upon, because the Crown grants have evidently been compiled partly from this and partly from other sources. The grants were never issued in accordance with these. 13. Mr. Eliott.] Who made the survey?— There is no evidence of that. 14. You also produce a lithographic locality plan?— Yes [Exhibit No. 30]. 15. Do you produce copies of the four Crown grants and one certificate of title for Hukarere? —Yes [Exhibits Nos. 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7]. 16. And you produce a copy of the reconveyance of the 780 acres to the Crown?— Yes [Exhibit No. 31]. 17. And also a copy of a deed of conveyance from the Bishop of New Zealand to the Te Aute trustees ?—Yes [Exhibit No. 32]. 18. You also produce certified copies of the appointments of new trustees, dated 13th May, 1862; 21st August, 1885; and 30th September, 1895?—Y'es [Exhibits Nos. 16, 17, and 18]. The last appointment of Mr. Coleman in place of Mr. Cotterill, deceased, has not yet been registered. I also produce certified copies of the deed of exchange between the trustees and Mr. R. Stokes