J. B. FIELDER.]

13

a.—s.

142. Do you know whether there is- any general desire to get the property cut up and divided into farms ?—I do not think so. It has never come before the trustees. 143. No applications have been made to the trustees?— None whatever, either since the existing lease or prior to it. 144. Mr. Lee.] I understood you to say there is no stock? —Not belonging to the trustees. 145. Still, in 1869, you see by the report, there was stock on the ground which had increased to a considerable number ?—I know nothing about that. You will find that out from Archdeacon Williams. 146. You are quite clear now that there is none belonging to the trust?—So far as I know, the trustees are possessed of no chattel property, with the exception of the furniture in the College. 147. You profess yourself as strongly in favour of technical education? —Yes. 148. Do you distinguish between technical education as understood now in its modern sense and the mere industrial occupations as at present practised in the different institutions? —-I mean the industrial occupations. 149. Are you prepared to make any suggestions as to what technical education should be taught in the schools?— Well, the girls should be taught cutting-out and dress-making, and ordinary household duties; and the boys, I take it, should be taught ordinary carpentering-work, and should be taught to be proficient as handy men. Of course, Ido not mean they should be taught trades. 150. Mr. Ngata.] Have the trustees ever exercised any control over the admission of students to this school ?—Not to my knowledge. 151. I suppose the usual method is to make application to the superintendent?— Yes. 152. The applications do not come to the trustees? —No. If an application came to the trustees, or to me as corresponding trustee, I would refer it to the Archdeacon. 153. Have any representations been made to yourself or to any of your co-trustees on the subject of the admission of European boys to the institution?— No. 154. Mr. Eliott.] I want to know definitely whether any money from the Te Aute trust has been spent on the Waerenga-a-Hika School ?—No. 155. There are certain payments made for Native scholars by the Government? —Yes. 156. To whom will the money be payable? —To Archdeacon Williams. 157. Mr. Ngata.] What would your own opinion be as to the advisability of putting a representative of the Ngatikahungunu people, who gave this land, on this trust?—l see no objection. 158. The Chairman.] According to the lease the total area of the estate is 6,863 acres, consisting of three blocks of 4,803, 1,745, and 315 acres: has this property ever been properly sur-veyed?-—I cannot say. 159. Mr. Eliott.] We are asked to ascertain what proportion of the revenue has been paid on account of each school maintained by the trust: is any definite proportion set apart for Hukarere School, or is the Te Aute fund drawn upon as money is required ?—The accounts will disclose that. 160. There is no definite allocation from the Te Aute fund each year to the Hukarere School?— No. 161. The Chairman.] Would the trustees object to the accounts being audited by a Government Department? —No. 162. Under the last lease you have the right to take over the buildings at a valuation?— Yes. 163. Have you any idea what they would amount to?—No; the Archdeacon can answer that question. 164. And if the trust took them over, out of what fund would they pay for them?— There is no fund. I presume we should have to mortgage the estate. 165. It amounts to this: If you had not a fund you could not buy the buildings, and the buildings would have to be removed if the Archdeacon chose to remove them?— That question has never been considered by the trustees. If the question arose, no doubt we would consider it. Samuel Williams examined. 166. The Chairman.] You are Archdeacon of Hawke's Bay?— Yes. 167. We understand that you are acquainted with the earliest history in connection with this Te Aute trust? —Yes. 168. We would like you to tell us in your own language the history of this trust from its infancy?—lt dates back to 1852. I was then in charge of the Otaki missionary district, between Wellington and the Rangitikei River. I was asked by the.Bishop of New Zealand to go down there in 1847 on a mission, in the first instance, to endeavour to unravel some of the disagreements amongst the Maoris and the differences between them and the Government. At that time Mr. Hadfield, as he was then, was laid aside through illness. This resulted in a petition being sent to the Bishop of New Zealand and the Church Missionary Society that I should be placed at Otaki permanently. Otaki was the headquarters. I succeeded in pacifying the Natives, and made considerable progress in the way of education amongst them. I had eight village schools and a central school at Otaki. There were from 120 to 130 scholars in the central school. In 1852 Sir George Grey visited the district, making my house his headquarters. During the first evening he was there he asked me how I should like to go to Hawke's Bay. I replied that I did not wish to go to Hawke's Bay or anywhere else. I said I was exceedingly happy in my work at Otaki, and I sincerely hoped nothing would interfere with it. Sir George Grey made no further remark until the third evening he was there. Then he told me he was feeling very anxious about Hawke's Bay; that he saw that a largo English population would be flocking into the district before the Natives were prepared to come into contact with them, and that he feared that unless there was somebody who could stand between the two ratfes they would be certain to come into collision. " Now," he said, " if you will go I will give you 4,000 acres of land to assist you in your educational pursuits, and I will endeavour to induce the Maoris to give an equal amount." He promised to give