W. L. WILLIAMS.]

3

G.-5.

80. And that was carried out by deed, duly registered? —Yes. 81. Have the trustees ever had any complaints from any person, Native or European, as to the administration of the trust? —No, nothing more than a little correspondence between the trustees and the Department on the subject of technical education. 82. But nothing as to the administration—-no charges of breach of trust or misconduct? —I know of none. 83. Is the trust estate now free from obligations of any kind, either legal or moral? Is there anything owing to anybody by the estate? —Not that I am aware of. 84. I suppose the estate now consists of the lands mentioned in these grants, subject to the exchanges spoken of ?—Yes, and the Hukarere trust. 85. These are the freeholds which the trust possesses?— Yes. 86. Is there any surplus income invested, or anything of that kind?—l think not. 87. The income, then, is expended from year to year as it comes in in carrying on these schools ?—Yes. 88. I suppose all the buildings on the property belong to the trust? —All the buildings that really belong to the school are the property of the trust, but in a previous lease the Archdeacon was entitled to erect further buildings if he liked, with the option of removing them at the end of the lease. 89. He resides on the estate?— Yes. 90. And the building he resides in belongs to the trust now?—l think it does; part of it, at all events. lam not quite sure. 91. Are there any stock or implements belonging to the trust apart from the land? —I think the stock belongs to the Archdeacon. It is the land alone that belongs to the trust. I have no knowledge of the details. Information in regard to that can be got from the Archdeacon. 92. There was stock originally on the land belonging to the trust, bought with money—£soo —advanced by the Government?—l know nothing about that. 93. I am reading from the records? —The Archdeacon will be able to give you all information about that. 94. There are no accumulations of income? —There is no great accumulation, at all events. There may be a balance at the bank. 95. To put it shortly, the Archdeacon seems to have been a sort of agent authorised by the trustees to look after the whole thing ?—Yes; from the previous trustees he had a power of attorney to act on their behalf. He has continued to act in the same way. 96. The trustees exercising a supervising control over everything?— Yes. 97. And he is trusted by them to do what is right in the matters of the trust, the trustees exercising, and claiming to exercise, a supervising jurisdiction over him?— Yes. I may say the trustees had good reason to have confidence in his management of the estate. , 98. Now, the College itself has grown and developed into an important institution under his management and the management of the trustees ?—Yes. 99. And is a well-known institution, I suppose, all over the colony?— Yes. 100. In fact, you meet with successful Te Aute boys everywhere?— Yes. 101. That state of things is the growth of years?— Yes. 102. As regards the system of education, on looking through the papers, there appears to be some slight difference of opinion as to whether technical education should be more encouraged in this school: what have you to say to that?— The trustees have expressed their readiness to the Department to make a little change in that way, and to do a little more. There has been for years past a certain amount of technical education. I think. Mr. Ngata knows. There is a carpenter's shop and tools. 103. Talking generally, I suppose the trustees are quite prepared to go with the altered times, and if technical education be the order of the day they are quite willing to fall in with that, and meet the wishes of the Government? —Yes, as far as the means at their disposal will allow. 104. I understand reports are sent in to the Diocese of Waiapu by the trustees annually? —Yes. 105. Some of them have been handed to me by Mr. Fielder, and from the report for 1901 [Exhibit No. I], which is signed by Mr. Thornton, headmaster, I quote this extract: "Technical Education: The Inspector reports, ' The seniors do a satisfactory amount of technical work. The carpentry-book is an interesting record. Entries show that all-round teaching is given— e.g., " Two boys sharpened a plane beautifully to-day," and again, "The dovetailing takes a great deal of time, and when a false cut has been made the whole work has to be done again." Sidelights of this kind are valuable to one who wishes to form a correct estimate of the character of the work done.' " That is the report of Mr. Pope?— Yes. 106. The report continues, " The whole subject of technical education has received the earnest attention of the trustees during the year just closed, in connection with a proposal from the Education Department to widen the field of industrial work at Te Ante. Seeing that the question has been taken up in Parliament, the trustees have thought it wise, for the present at least, to delay definite action; meantime the ordinary technical work at the College goes on as usual." Does that fairly describe the feeling of the trustees with regard to technical education?— Yes. 107. The last report I have here is for 1904 [Exhibit No. 2], and from it I quote this: — " Technical Education: This important subject, which has been under consideration for some years past, seems now at length to be nearing a practical issue. The whole question was reopened in 1903, with the result that complete accord has been established between the Government and the trustees, and it now only remains for the Government to give effect to its own proposals," Do you know what these proposals were? —The Department had proposed that each of the boys should have four hours a week technical instruction, and the trustees suggested two hours and a half, I think, and the Department agreed to that.