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G. GEORGE. J

115. As far as primary education is concerned ?—As far as that branch of it goes—as far as nature-study goes. 116. But by "nature-study" you mean rural education, and by "rural education" you mean nature-study ?—Yes. Of course, it is a portion of the primary education; it not the whole of it. 117. In what respects would you differentiate between the education in town schools and the education in rural schools ?—I do not know that I would differentiate at all in New Zealand up to Standard VI. . 118. Then, when you say that nature-study should be taught in the country schools, you apply the same principle to the town schools, and say that instruction in nature-study, even to a larger extent than is at present given, should be given in all schools ? —Yes. 119. And that is the only way, so far as the primary system of education is concerned, in which you would suggest any alteration at all—l mean to say, with regard to the subject we are speaking about ?—Well, of course, that is all provided for in the curriculum. In order to teach nature-study you have got to make it possible by training your teachers, by having more of them, and therefore giving them fewer pupils to teach. 120. Your recommendations, then, are not in effect that there should be any radical change introduced into the rural schools to meet the demand for what is called agricultural education ?— No. The most radical change that I have suggested is apart from the curriculum—that you shall do away with a number of these small schools and centralise in one big school, as far as possible. 121. Let us summarise your views ?—I have already summarised them. 122. We summarise them in this way : no such thing as technical agricultural education, or technical rural education, should be given in any of the schools? —"Technical education" in primary schools is a misnomer altogether. 123. Mr. Hardy.] With regard to doing away with a number of small schools, how about if the small schools are situated in bays, where the people cannot get about from place to place ?— You cannot do away with those, but, I say, do away with the small schools wherever it is possible to convey the children. 124. The Chairman.] And the same class of education should be given in all primary schools? —I think so. Ido not believe in specialisation until after the Sixth Standard is passed. Then you can begin to differentiate. 125. Then no scheme that would make a differentiation in the instruction given in rural schools and that given in urban schools would meet with your approval ? —I would not like to say that any scheme that was brought forward, I would find fault with. I would rather put it in this way, that I see no reason for differentiation. 126. You spoke about influence being brought to bear upon the Education Boards. You have knowledge of that ?—Yes. The Chairman : Well, I may say at once that I have reason to know that your statement is absolutely correct. 127. Mr. J. Allen (for Mr. Buchanan).] Would not continued study at a technical school till the age of, say, eighteen, tend to produce a distaste for the cow-yard side of the business ? —ln my scheme I provide for the boys working at from sixteen to eighteen. , They would be really working on an experimental farm. I put down ten hours a week manual labour. So I do not think it would produce a distaste. 128. The Chairman.] Will you tell us whether, as regards differentiation, it is not a fundamental principle in elementary education that the teaching in the school should have immediate relation to the surroundings, and, if the surroundings are different in the town schools, whether the teaching should be different ?—ln my opinion it would mean a modification only. For instance, your scheme of nature-study would, be modified to suit your local requirements, and I would merely modify it in that direction. 129. Will you also tell us whether the present needs could not be met—in regard first of all to the training of the teachers now in the schools, and the training of the farmer's sons who have left school and will not go to agricultural schools—by experts appointed by the Education Boards reaching both of those classes, by giving evening and Saturday lectures, not for three months, but for as long a time as they could afford, and repeating this year after year ? Would not that meet the difficulty much better than by taking teachers out of the schools for a whole day ?—Do you mean teachers to attend evening classes ? 130. Evening classes if necessary and where possible ?—Well, as far as Auckland is concerned —of course, I cannot speak about the other parts of the colony, because Ido not know what the means of communication are —but in Auckland we have tried to hold teachers' classes on any day but Saturday, and except in the City of Auckland itself we have never been able to get a number together, because they cannot get backwards and forwards. The same thing applies to farmers' sons; but I have left the farmers' sons out of it altogether in the meantime. I have simply dealt with the primary schools. 131. Do you know of the large classes in nature-study that are now being conducted by Mr. G. M. Thomson for the Southland Board at Invercargill and Gore—practical classes in naturestudy—and also the classes he is conducting at Dunedin indirectly connected with the Board ?— I know that such classes are being conducted, but I know nothing of the details or the manner in which they are carried on. 132. Do you know how many school-gardens there are in the colony now?—No; I do not. I know how many there are in Auckland. 133. You do not know that there are about a hundred school-gardens ? —I knew that there were a considerable number. 134. Mr. J. Allen.] With regard to what was asked you just now as to utilising the surroundings in teaching, is it a fact that in the towns the only surroundings that are possible to a