I.—lo.

8

[j. SCHLOSS.

136. Is this a fair sample [Sample handed to witness]? —I should certainly say it was an exceedingly fine sample. You can detect the mineral naphtha in this, but not the wood. Mr. Glasgow': I should just like to mention one thing. Since this Bill was introduced a firm in Auckland have wired stating that they make perfumed spirit from uncleaned methylated spirit. That is this stuff [Indicated]; and, of course, if they are doing that, this Bill will interfere with them. I cannot imagine how they make perfume of that stuff at all; but they say they do. 137. Mr. Duthie (to Mr. Glasgow).] How is it that you hays not had this clarified spirit analysed I —l have had it tried to ascertain its strength. 138. But as to whether there is naphtha in it or not. The suggestion is that the naphtha is deodorised ?—I do not think it is possible, with that spirit, to tell whether there is any naphtha in it. Naphtha and ordinary alcohol, which form the wood-spirit, are of about the same specific gravity, and if you attempt to distil them they will not separate.

Thursday, 26th October, 1905. Henry Joyce examined. (No. 4.) 1. The Chairman.] What is your occupation, Mr. Joyce? —I am a manufacturer of various articles—perfumery and other things. 2. We have a Bill referred to us dealing with methylated spirit, and we are anxious to get evidence on both sides of the question. Would you care to make a statement about the matter, or would you prefer to reply to questions that might be put to you ?—I am not particular. You wish to know how the Bill would affect me ? 3. Yes?— Briefly, the Bill would close me up. I should not consider it worth while spending my time any further in the business. I should simply lose £600. Ido not consider it would be at all wise for me to handle methylated spirit under the drastic restrictions of the Bill. I have used methylated spirit for years in Australia, and many years in London, in a legitimate way. I consider that Bill would simply put me out of court altogether. I should not be safe. There are many purposes for which, in manufacturing, methylated spirits are used, and we may use them over and over again for various purposes, such as reducing things to liquid form or paste form, and purposes of that kind. After the spirit is once used it certainly will alter its status somewhat. Under the Bill, I understand, an officer could step in and say, "I have suspicions that this spirit is not exactly as it should be as methylated spirit," and he finds it to be so. It is so. The spirit is altered somewhat. Therefore I consider that if the Bill is passed I will give my business up. 4. Mr. Barber.] You do recover the methylated spirit after it has been used—have you a still?—Oh, no. Supposing, now, we will say, you want to liquify something, or partly liquify it; you immerse it in methylated spirit, and decant the spirit off. 5. You just let it settle, and pour off the clear stuff?— Yes. 6. That would not rectify it?—l would not rectify it at all. Ido not rectify spirit. There has been a lot of talk about it, but, as far as I know, it has not been done. It has not been done by me. I may say that I make perfumery, and use more or less methylated spirit in connection with it, but it is by no means detrimental. I do just the same as I have done in England and Australia. I was for a long time in London using it. Take soap-making, for instance. I make toilet-soap. There is methylated spirit used in connection with that, to make it properly. 7. Do you rectify spirit by distillation —do you get methylated spirit and practically convert it into alcohol by distillation ?—No. I have not a still of any kind or any apparatus for the purpose. I use the spirit in a legitimate way, as I have done in England for years. There are innumerable articles, almost, that methylated spirit is used in connection with the making-up of. I make all sorts of polishes and varnishes. 8. Would the Bill prevent your using methylated spirit for purposes of that kind? —Supposing, as I say, I use the spirit, and in that way it is altered somewhat. I decant it off, and it is somewhat changed. I have, added a certain thing, and it shows a certain methylation in it, and probably a part of that may be taken off. I decant that spirit off. It is a fair and proper thing that T should use it over and over again. But an officer may step in and say, " I find this is not purely methylated spirit. You have been tampering with it." Of course, I have; I have been using it. As I read the Bill, I should be mulct in a very serious penalty for having that in my possession. The whole thing would be confiscated —plant and everything else. So I would not go on one day after the Act was passed. That is my feeling about it. I have spent my lifetime using methylated spirit chiefly. 9. Mr. Duthie.] There is no way of continuing your manufacture of these perfumes without affecting the revenue? —I do not know that it affects the revenue any more than it would in England or anywhere else where we have used the spirit. As nearly as I can say, speaking roughly, in about twelve months there has been about seven hundred pounds' worth of perfumery turned over. 10. In New Zealand? —Here. Well, I do not suppose there would be more than seventy pounds' or eighty pounds' worth of spirit used in that. 11. As it becomes known, the sale might be very much greater than what you mention now? —I think not, under the present conditions, because the duty is not sufficient. All small parcels of perfumery are cheaper imported than made here, because the quantity is so small. Say, 2- and 3-dram bottles: the contents practically cost a trifle; it is the vehicle thai makes the difference. 12. Your spirits, before you use them, are simply deodorised?— They are simply methylated spirit. 13. But the smell is taken off? —That must be so of necessity.