L—9

64

W. PEET,

396. What was the award ?—lt was fifty-three hours until 6 o'clock on four nights, five hours on the half-holiday, and thirteen hours on the Saturday until 10 o'clock. 397. And you wish that continued ?—Yes. 398. You ask that it be applied to all shops where no assistant is employed ?—Yes ; for grocers' shops. We considered that if the employers have to shut at 6, others should be also compelled to shut. There should be no exemptions whatever. 399. Are there any exemptions under the Arbitration award ?—The Arbitration award did not close the shops ; it only allowed for the hours of working. 400. Are the provisions of the awards sufficient for you ? —We are quite satisfied with them. 401. You would have no objection to the small shops remaining open so long as the assistants got away ?—We do not want the shops to be kept open. A man employing half a dozen assistants cannot mind the shop himself. 402. But how about a man not employing assistants ?—lt is not fair that he should be allowed to keep open. One individual would not make much difference, but half a dozen would make a great difference. 403. How many assistants do you employ ?—Eleven. 404 How long have you been in business ? —Perhaps twenty years 405. During that twenty years, taking the first five or ten years, did you keep open to a late hour ? —We did. 406. How long have you closed at 6 o'clock ?—I could not tell you ; probably five or six years. 407. When you first started in business, did you start in a shop in which you employed any hands ? —At first my brother and I started without any assistants. 408. You made your own way ? —Yes. 409. Mr. Sidey.] I would like to be quite clear as to the number of shops you say you represent ? —Something just over sixty. I cannot give you the exact number. 410. Do you profess to speak on behalf of those one-man shops which do not employ any labour ? —No." 411. Mr. Fisher.] Is not the petition from Auckland signed by seventeen thousand people against clause 3 of great value from an evidence point of view ?—Yes ; but the seventeen thousand people were not grocers. There may have been some. 412. But the people who require groceries are entitled to some consideration, are they not ? —Yes, undoubtedly. 413. You said just now that in the early stages of your business, when with your brother, you did not close at 6 o'clock ?—Yes. 414. To what hour did you work ? —We kept open perhaps to 9 o'clock. 415. And when you found your business had so developed that it did not pay you to keep open so late you closed at 6 o'clock ?—We closed at the same time as our neighbours. At whatever time they closed we closed. My place is in a big retail centre. 416. Mr. Barber.] Supposing you were starting business again as a small man, what chance would you have to compete with the big men if you only kept open during the same hours as they did ?—The same as I had before, because the big shops kept open the same hours that we did. .. 417. Those with a large number of assistants ?—Yes. 418. Twenty years ago, in the Karangahape Road, were there many assistants employed in the grocers' shops : did any employ eleven assistants ? —I would not say that any of them employed eleven assistants, but there were several businesses that employed assistants. 419. Twenty years ago ? —Yes. 420. If it were necessary for them to have assistants to conduct their business, did they keep open till 9 o'clock at night ?—Yes. 421. Did they bring their assistants back till 9 o'clock ?—Yes. 422. They worked the same hours every night ?—Yes. 423. You think that if 6-o'clock closing had prevailed when you started business you would have been as successful as you have been during the past few years ? —Yes, I think so. 424. You are not sure ? —How can Ibe sure ? The circumstances were so different. 425. You employ eleven assistants : do your assistants work after 6 o'clock ? —Sometimes. 426. What time do the delivery-carts leave off ?—Any time from half past 5 to 7 o'clock. 427. Do you not think you have an advantage over the small shopkeeper who has not a cart to deliver his goods ?—We have some advantages, and they have some as well. 428. What advantages have they ?—We have a big wage-bill and they have not. 429. You would not have a big wage-bill if the worker did not more than earn his wages ? —I suppose not. 430. You have an advantage over the small man by having your carts out after you close ?—We are prepared to get them in by 6 o'clock. 431. You are willing—if compulsory closing at 6 o'clock is enforced —to allow all your employees, including the delivery-cart men, to cease work at 6 ? —Yes, generally. Sometimes it would not work. 432. Mr. Fisher.] You speak in reference to clerks as well as others ? —Yes. 433. Did the clerks make any reference to you in the matter ?—No ; but I think there is something in the Act which refers to clerks. 434. You did it on your own initiative ? The clerks have not approached you ? —No. I speak on behalf of the Association of Employers. 435. Mr. Alison.] I wish to know whether the employees have made any representations to the employers prior to the passing of the Act, to the effect that they were working hours in excess of those they desired to work ? —They wanted fifty-two hours a week, whereas we were working fifty-three. 436. That is as far as the Aribtration Court award is concerned ? —Yes. . 437. That was the only difference so far as the hours were concerned ?—-Yes, I think so.