1.—9.

58

[W. M. CHAPMAN

as to when we go for our holidays. I believe that a man who went away at Christmas of this year would go from the 24th December to the 12th or 13th January. During this time he would be free to do as he liked, and would draw his salary. 210. Do you employ any females in the warehouses ? —We have one typiste only at the place where I work. 211. I am not speaking of your particular warehouse ?—There are no females employed in the warehouses at all, except in the capacity of typists. 212. Are there many of these ?—No, I think there is only one in each warehouse in Auckland. 213. There are no female clerks ?—No ; and the typists never work overtime. 214. You think it is not necessary for warehouses to come under the Act so as to make employers provide the proper sanitary arrangements ?—Well, the premises are inspected by the Inspector of Factories, I believe. Anyhow, it is open to an Inspector to go and see them. The arrangements are all first-class in all the warehouses. 215. Mr. Alison.] There was a petition presented to Parliament last session by warehouse employees in Auckland, asking that warehouses should be exempted from the provisions of the Shops and Offices Act. Do you know anything about that ?—I do. 216. Was that instigated by the employers ? —No, not in any way. 217. Was the prayer of the petition unanimously approved by the employees ? —Certainly. I can speak of that petition, because I had the doing of it myself. We had a meeting, and it was resolved that we should send the petition to Wellington. We were not able to get the forms from the printers until half past 10 that morning. 218. The Chairman.] I think it will be quite sufficient if you say there was no pressure brought to bear ? —There was none whatever. The petition was signed by six hundred men on their own initiative. 219. Mr. Alison.] You say there is considerable latitude extended to warehouse employees. Is that quite satisfactory to the employees ? —lt certainly is. lam quite satisfied that the warehouse clerks have nothing to ask for in the way of legislation to get them anything they want. 220. You feel that there is a unanimous desire on the part of the warehouse employees that they should be exempted from the operation of the Shops and Offices Act ? —lt is quite unanimous in Auckland. 221. Prior to the passing of the Shops and Offices Act—the 1904 Act—did you hear on any occasion any employee or body of employees complain as to the hours they were working, or that they were called upon to work after 5 at night ? —Never. 222. Has the Act been put into operation as far as the warehouses are concerned ? —No, it has not been. We had instructions to keep a time-book, and we have kept it. We followed-out the instructions of the Inspector to do so. 223. Mr. Hardy.] How does the Act affect you ? —lt affects us in this way : Take, for instance, the entering-room. There is a staff in my room of sixteen ; seven of them come under the Act and nine do not. The seven who do come under the Act we keep a time-book for, and they are given to understand that they will be paid what overtime they earn ; but they lose their holidays, and|they lose any other perquisite that is going among the warehouse employees, because of the firm being compelled to pay them overtime. According to the Act a junior would work two hours overtime. We never work after 9 p.m. in our warehouse. We work from 6to 9 p.m. ; that is, the men. The juniors are never worked after half past 8 p.m. Well, we have reduced the time within the last twelve months to two hours for juniors, for which they would receive Is. 6d. The firm provides them with a dinner at one of the three best places in Auckland, and that costs the firm Is. 3d. The firm pays for the meal, and the employees go to which of the places they like. In Auckland the suburbs are extended, and they would have no opportunity to get home between 5 and 6. 224. I understand you to say that the concessions granted by your firm and by warehousemen generally to their hands are greater than the Act seeks to give them ?—They certainly are. 225. Then, if the Act does not seek to take anything more from the warehousemen, why should you object to it ? —For instance, there was one man came to me when the Act came into operation ; a man with a family of five or six. He knows perfectly well that were he taken ill while in the employ of the firm his wages would be secured to him until he got better. Ido not say that it would extend into years, but for six months he would have his salary paid. 226. Are you sure that these people who are working under the clauses of the Act applying to them are in a worse position than they were before the Act came in ? —They are in a worse position in this way, that they are losing the advantages which they had, and in place of them are getting the overtime allowed by the Act. 227. Has the Act, when applied to your warehouse, had the effect of increasing the goodwill between employer and employed, or otherwise ?—lt has not been rigidly enforced, but when it is brought into force I think it will do away with the good feeling that has existed so long, simply because it is a matter of getting the pound of flesh. The men know they are working for good employers,fand if there is anything wanted it is done cheerfully and willingly. I could tell you of three cases in which our firm has paid wages, in one for eight months and another for twelve months —when the men were away ill— and men earning good salaries. 228. Has the Act had a tendency to level down rather than raise up ?—To level down. 229. You say that as a rule the employees in your warehouse do not work longer than the Act provides that they should do ?—No. 230. There are times, I presume, when you have to work overtime ?—Yes. 231. In the seasons when you are bringing in stock, and I think you said at times when the Islands trade affected you ?—Yes. 232. If you are kept under the Act you think it will have a bad effect ?—I think so.