1.—9.

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fw. H. LAVELLE.

280. You said the overtime provision was put in by the Labour Department ?—We understand it was. 281. You were not in favour of it then ?—We were not consulted. 282. Would it surprise you to know that some of the shop-assistants approved of it when the matter came before the Labour Department some two years ago ? —That may be, but we have seen how it works. 283. Then you do not consider that the fifty-two half-holidays which the employees get in the year are sufficient ?—No. I think if the assistants give their overtime gratis to their employer he should give them one week's holiday in the summer months. 284. But they do not give the overtime gratis : the law provides that they shall be paid for it ?— But it does not compel the employer to stick to the old rate of wages. 285. How do you mean ? —ln one case that I know of the shop-assistant got a small cheque for his overtime-payment, and at the same time he was told that his wages would be reduced. 286. Why ?—Because his employer was a mean man ; he was taking advantage of his assistant. 287. Is it not contrary to the spirit of the Act if a man's wages are reduced on account of the halfholiday ?—Yes. 288. Why was that not brought before the Court ?—The shop-assistant values his situation, for if he gets out of work he might not get work readily again. He is one of the silent sufferers. 289. You spoke about an employee who has been working for fifteen years in a place and has never had a holiday ?—Yes. 290. Was he a good man ? —He must be fairly good or his employer would not have kept him so long. 291. And where is the employer in Wellington who would keep an assistant for fifteen years without giving him a holiday ?—The assistant had the public holidays, but never a free week to get away anywhere. 292. But the law provides that he shall get fifty two half-holidays and the statutory holidays?— Quite right. 293. And the law provides that he can only work a certain number of hours ? —Yes. 294. And yet you say it is not enough. You want the assistant to get a holiday to go out of town ? —He wants to get a clear week in each year. A mechanic can always get his holiday when things are slack. 295. But a mechanic does not get piad ?—No. 296. What is the pay of an ordinary shop-assistant ? —About £2 10s. weekly for a good male assistant. 297. Has the amount of pay gone up or down since this legislation has been placed on the statutebook ? —I could not tell you that. 298. I presume that the necessaries of life in some cases have increased in price ? —They have. I know that from my own experience. 299. Some things are cheaper and some dearer ?—Yes, but there is a tendency for things to get dearer in Wellington during the last six months. 300. You are speaking only for Wellington when you ask that the half-holiday shall be made statutory ? —Yes. 301. And you think the Prince of Wales's Birthday should be a statutory holiday, but have no objection to substituting Empire Day for it ? —I think Empire Day is the more popular day. The Prince of Wales's Birthday is never observed at Home ; they think more of Lord Mayor's Day. 302. You are perfectly clear in saying that when a public holiday comes in a week you have a right to the half-holiday as well ? —lf we have a right to the public holiday, let us have it. Then w T hy interfere with the statutory half-holiday ? 303. You have a legal right to the half-holiday ?—Yes. 304. But the law provides that it is no longer a legal holiday when a public holiday comes in the same week ?—Yes. We want the statutory half-holiday to be allowed, and to enjoy the public holidays when they come-round. It is not fair that we should lose our half-holiday. 305. If you do not get the whole holiday you get the half-holiday, and when you get the whole holiday you lose the half-holiday ?—Yes, the shop-assistant would prefer to get the Saturday halfholiday to, say, the King's Birthday, or some of the other holidays that come along. 306. Mr. Colvin.] Is it not a fact that two-thirds of the shopkeepers are against the early closing ? —I would not say two-thirds ; I would say about 50 per cent., and a good many of these people if it were fixed by law would feel the benefit of it. 307. And the majority—in fact, the whole of the large employers —are in favour of early closing ? — Yes, nearly all of them. 308. The small shopkeepers in their evidence to-day said that their trade is ruined because the working-men cannot get what they want after 6 o'clock, or their wives cannot get out to do their shopping in the evening, and if they have to go to the large, places to buy it will cause property to go down in value, and the small shopkeepers will have to give up their establishments because they cannot compete with the large business establishments ? —Yes, but the Act exempts the small shops where only one person is in charge. In this connection, Ido not think a man and his wife should be counted as two. I thoroughly sympathize with the small shopkeepers in Wellington, and I have advised two or three to clear out of their businesses because they are not making anything or are losing money. It is a pity. Some stocks are so small that the proprietors will never make them pay. With about ten pounds' worth of stock how can they make a living ? All the legislation in the world will never enable them to make such a business pay. It will be a case of the survival of the fittest. 309. Do you not think the tendency of our legislation is to put all the business into the hands of the large trusts and combines, and that eventually the prices will go up ? It is the small shopkeeper