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I have been able to learn, is this: that even while living at Port Nicholson there was still a great fear of the Waikatos and Ngapuhi, for they had become embroiled with the Ngatikahungunu in 1834. When a massacre took place in the Wairarapa these people proceeded to the Wairarapa and demolished the pa of Pahikatai and killed a great number of the Ngatikahungunu, and then returned to Wellington. This was in 1835. The Commissioner: The Pukerangiora took place in the meanwhile. Mr. Percy Smith: Yes, and this was followed up by the events in 1831. The Commissioner: I had the original letter written by some one to the then Governor of New South Wales, in which they introduced the chiefs Te Keeka and Wharepouri. That was the occasion when they went over to get guns, which they and Barrett used at Moturoa. Mr. Percy Smith: With regard to the immigration to the Chatham Islands, I cannot do better than quote from Mr. Shand's story, which is published in the first volume of the Polynesian Society's Journal. It is almost unnecessary for me to tell you that Mr. Shand is an authority on the matter of the history of these people, as far as the Ngatiawa are concerned, and, moreover, took a great deal of trouble to ascertain the correct date. I went through them with him at the time he was writing in 1890 or 1891, and I take it that the dates he has given are quite correct. They are derived from the story given by the captain of the brig " Rodney," after taking these people to the Chatham Islands. The Commissioner: This is all very authentic, and the date does not matter for a year or two. Mr. Percy Smith : I have the dates quite clear. The following is the extract from the Journal of the Polynesian Society (Vol. i., No. 3, page 156, " The Occupation of the Chatham Islands "): " We find that on the 7th November the Maoris were watering the vessel, and between that date and the morning of the 14th November, 1835, at 5 a.m., when the 'Rodney' sailed for the Chatham Islands, the Maoris were putting their potatoes and seed on board—a quantity estimated' at 70 tons —although that could scarcely have occupied all that time. The day before leaving, so many Maoris crowded on board who wished to go, that there was no room to work the ship. She finally took away about five hundred souls all told, including women and children, after having landed a large number of others at Evans Bay. These latter people took the second mate ashore with them, fearing that the captain might not return, according to agreement, to take the next ship-load unless they held a hostage. According to the captain's statement, this was nearly coming to pass. On his return, after landing the first party of Maoris at Whangaroa Harbour, in the island, it is stated that he only fulfilled his agreement on the assurance of his trading-master that if he did not return the life of the second mate would certainly be forfeited. As already mentioned, the 'Rodney' left Port Nicholson on the 14th November; she reached Whangatete, the next small bay to Whangaroa, Chatham Islands, late on the 17th. The same evening a European named Baker, in charge of a sealing and whaling establishment at Whangaroa, came off in a whaleboat and visited them. There also came in the same boat a white man (James Coffee), Tauru-Matioro, and Rihari Patuhora, Matioro's sister Mukukai, and some others, all of whom lived peaceably with the Morioris on shore. Baker informed the captain of the proper anchorage at Whangaroa, to which he moved the ship next day, and where the Maoris were immediately landed On the 23rd November the ' Rodney ' returned to Port Nicholson from Whangaroa, to the great relief of the Maoris there waiting. According to Captain Harewood's account, they had sacrificed and hung up certain dogs, and killed a girl likewise, who is said to have been dealt with in a similar manner. This was done to induce the return of the brig. It took a whole day for those who returned to tell all about the island to their friends. Captain Harewood was now paid for carrying them to the Chathams. In the second trip, which left on the 30th November, 1835, seven canoes were taken, together with the remainder of the Ngatimutunga, Kekerewai, Ngatitama, and Ngatihaumia—a section of the Taranaki people—in all about four hundred souls. The vessel was not nearly so crowded or confined as on the first trip. She arrived at her destination on the sth December, 1835." This shows the dates, and the captain's account appears in the Sydney Morning Herald of that year. The Commissioner: We may take it that they arrived at the end of 1835. Mr. Skinner: Before passing on to the date of their return, they landed there in November, 1835, and conquered and occupied these islands for many years? Mr. Percy Smith: That is so, though they occasionally paid visits backwards and forwards. A few used to come back and visit their relatives. Mr. Skinner: They used these islands as their own? Mr. Percy Smith: In fact, they did eat most of the inhabitants. The Commissioner: And thus disposed of the original title-deeds. Mr. Percy Smith: As to the date of their leaving the Chatham Islands, I may say that I was at the Chatham Islands the whole of the year 1868 and part of 1869. I went by order of the Government to make a triangulation survey of the islands, and whilst I was there the first parties of any considerable number left to come back to New Zealand. I was also there during Te Kooti's escape, which was on the 4th July, 1868. The Commissioner: What is desired to be arrived at is the date when they returned. It appears that some came in 1867 to Mr. Richmond's meeting, and what I fancy the Crown's representative wishes to ascertain is when they came back and what number of them came back. Mr. Percy Smith: I will quote from my diary of that year Under the heading of the 30th October, 1868, the following entry appears: " This morning the mailman arrived from Kaingaroa with the mail brought down by the barque ' Collingwood ' from Dunedin. She has come down to fetch the Maoris from the northern part of the island." So far as my knowledge extends, this is the first vessel that did come down. Under the date of the Bth November, 1868, my diary states, " I returned to Waitangi and found the ' Collingwood 'at anchor. She has come to take the Maoris to Taranaki. All the Taingaroa and Tetupangi people are on board, and she takes about ten from here." On the 19th November I was not at Waitangi, but the other side of the