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so bad as Mr. Moss led me to believe, but still there is a great deal which should not be done. There are a large number of people who are unable to help themselves, and these we are bound to protect, and in this I do not expect the Arikis to be against me. What I have said to-day is in my heart, and I know it is for the good of the people and the Arikis. In New Zealand the people are being put on the land so that no one should be poverty-stricken. Therefore the people of New Zealand would think badly of us here if the small people were not protected; but, at the same time, the small people should not unduly assert themselves over the bigger people. I shall be glad to hear anything that the Arikis may say, but before concluding I will quote from a memorandum left by Mr. Moss, in which he says as follows: "In Rarotonga the law ought to give a good title also to the people in the settlement lands set aside by the chiefs and given in trust to the mission. Sites leased to Europeans to the present time, let them remain undisturbed, and the rents be paid to the owner as they are now, but with the rest of the land something definite ought to be done. Those who are living on it ought certainly not to be disturbed unless by the decision of a proper Court on grounds that the law should state." Makea Daniela Vakatini: Concerning the interference of Makea in the election of Karika, I would point out that the old tapuna custom is that all should meet and decide what was to be done, and the Mataiapos would finish the work. That is why Makea took part. Concerning the house-sites we are not causing any trouble. The Resident Commissioner: I did not say you were. I only read Mr. Moss's memorandum. Makea Daniela Vakatini: Concerning my trouble with Pora, it is asserted that I have no right in Vakatini, and that Pora has more right than I. The Resident Commissioner: Yes, on one piece, but not in reference to all the Vakatini lands. Makea Daniela Vakatini: I might have misunderstood the matter. There is really no trouble between Pora and me. If he had asked me for anything I would have given it in peace, but he wants now to be separated from me and to obtain the title. When the decision of the Court was given I was told that I had no claim to the title of Vakatini. The Resident Commissioner: You have no descent from the first Vakatini which would give you a right to the title. Makea Daniela Vakatini: I did not think it would have been put in that light. I will explain my descent. Tapaeru Ariki married Vakatini. One of their daughters was Ngatariau, who married Makea Takoa. Their child was Takau, who married Makea Puri, and their children are the ancestors of the Makeas, Tinomanas, and myself. They were all read Vakatinis, and that is why I am a Ngati Vakatini. The Resident Commissioner: The most important thing to consider is what is to be done to preserve the rights of the Arikis over land in which the people have rights. Makea Daniela Vakatini: We want no trouble over the matter. If we have children the eldest gets the title, and the other children get their portion. The Resident Commissioner: Why was there interference in the election of Karika 1 Makea Daniela Vakatini: Because each Ariki should assist the other. The Resident Commissioner: What I. want is to give the small people what they are entitled to, but Ido not want to take away any of the rights of the overlords. How are we to arrange it? Makea Daniela Vakatini: If the Ui Rangatira had approached us no trouble would have come. The people have been listening to outsiders, and that is why the Ui Ariki have felt annoyed. The Resident Commissioner: This has been going on ever since I came here, and why? Because they wished to put down Makea. Makea Daniela Vakatini: If the Rangatiras had come to Makea and made known their requests there would have been no trouble. One is angry with the other. I have told the Vakatini people to have their land surveyed and brought before the Court. The Resident Commissioner: When a man puts in an application he should inform the Ariki, and it should then be arranged as to the obligations of the land. If the parties came to an agreement the Court would give effect to it. If not, then the Court would decide the matter. Makea Ariki: I and my Rangatiras have had no trouble. We will have our land surveyed. I told them if any one had only a small section it would have to remain so, and that they must not take any land from the big pieces of Karika or Vakatini. Our trouble is in payment of the fees. The Resident Commissioner: You can have three years to pay the fees. Where there is atinga it should be in money, and not in pigs or other indefinite payment. The Government would collect the atinga money and pay it over to the overlord. Makea Ariki: In the old times we did not know the use of money. If I wanted work done my people did it. Makea Daniela Vakatini: We could discuss these things in the Council. Pa Ariki: We have assembled with the Resident Commissioner concerning the trouble between the Arikis and the people. This trouble has come because the people have got conceited. They think that when they get the land they become Rangatiras, and will not return to the Arikis. They do not remember the customs of their ancestors—that is, in going to their elders to ask advice. If they still did that there would be no trouble. In my settlement the first to have the leased land surveyed was Karika. She came and told me, and there was no trouble. I afterwards arranged with my Mataiapos to have the Vaimaanga lands put through the Court. We met and fixed the boundaries of the blocks and defined the obligations of the lands. The Court indorsed what we had fixed If the same thing were done in Avarua there would bo no trouble there. Tinomana Ariki: We have the same trouble in Arorangi. The people quote the cases of the Ngati Karika and Vakatini. ' Makea Ariki: The people think that the Arikis have no more say m matters. The Resident Commissioner: How are they going to put the Arikis down? The Arikis are the governing members of the Island Council as fixed by the law of New Zealand. I will carry