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1.—14b

H. HILL

67. Considering our conditions in New Zealand, where is it possible that we could have training schools such as 3-ou think about?- -Would 3-011 like me to give 3'ou my own opinion? 68. Yes, your opinion only with respect to the possibilities of New Zealand. It is no use theorizing of what is impossible?—l do not want to theorize. I want to make it practical. 1 would say there should be a technical training school for teachers in every education district. 69. Assuming that that is not possible, and that all Parliament sees practicable with the means at its disposal is four schools in the large centres, what do you suggest as the training of the teacher there? —My opinion is that the moment you attempt to have four training schools you will find the expense too great. There are not sufficient teachers required to keep four training schools going. No doubt the four university college centres assuming alway-s that each district does not have a training school —are the proper places for the training colleges, because you can apply the academic preparation. 70. If the cost is too much for training schools in the four centres, what about the cost of them in each educational district?--It would not be as much. 71. Why? —You could utilise the students' services in school-work, which 3011 do not propose to do in the four centres. 72. Do you think it would be advisable to utilise the services of the students in school-work? —I do not see how you are going to train them as teachers unless you train them to teach. A person would never learn to be a shoemaker simply by hearing lectures on how 7 to make shoes. 73. I will not follow up the question it would lead us too far. Let us come back to the four centres. Considering the possibilities of New Zealand, supposing you trained these teachers so that the - got sufficient education in pure science to enable them to fill the positions in country schools, and so on, do 3 7 0u think there is sufficient inducement nowadays for a teacher to go to a country- school who had had the kind of training he would get under the training-school system you suggest? —There is not; but if the rating authorities had the control of education the 3" would see that it was very cheap for them to get a skilful teacher, instead of taking a teacher who could not adapt the preparation of the children. You would have the teachers to fill the'proper places, because the local authorities would make an effort, over and above the Government grant, to makeup the salaries of such teachers. 74. Do I understand you to mean that the teacher to-day- in the country school is insufficientlypaid for the work?- For the work he does perhaps his pay is sufficient, but for the work we want him to do much more pay would be required. The higher the skill the greater the wage, I should put it. 75. Does it require, in your opinion, as high or higher skill to teach a, country school, with its necessary nature-study, and so on, as it does to teach a town school? —I think it requires even greater skill, because relatively the differentiation is greater 76. What suggestion have you to make, .if any, with regard to the supply of teachers for country schools under such conditions as we have been talking about?--Simply prepare them—give opportunities for the technical training of teachers, and provide inducements for those teachers to go into the country. 77. What inducements? —By large salaries. I said I wanted to foster their growth b3 7 the process of rating. 78. The teachers should have increased pay?--You would have to give increased pa3 7 , because the skill would be greater. 79. Would that involve an alteration of the present system of pay —practically, I understand, it is according to the number of pupils attending? —No: you could have a capitation allowance. but every- district wanting a special teacher would give a subsidy. A district wanting a good teacher would be willing to give a certain amount as aid. That has been operating for twenty five 3 7 ears to my knowledge. Where a district has wanted a special teacher it has said, "We will make up the salary." 80. Assuming that the district does not do that, and the thing is left in the hands of thGovernment, how are you going to manage?--You will have to go to tho fountain-head and ask for more money, because greater skill is required, and you cannot induce specially trained teachers to go into the country for the salary- that is offered in a small school at the present time. 81. What do you think of the suggestion that the pay of teachers should not be according to the number of pupils, but according to the classification and capacity of the teacher?- " Capacity- " is a ver3 7 indefinite term. You must have a factor to determine the salary in my view. 82. The factor that we are talking about is, in your opinion, so I understand, that the teacher in a country- school requires more powers of teaching than one in a town school. How are you going to provide more pay unless you alter the system, supposing the Government does it all? If Government does it all you will have to modify- y 7 our salary-scale. 83. In what way 7? —Give a greater capitation allowance for the small schools in other words, increase the capitation. 84. With regard to what you said about rating. Do you suggest a supplemental rate iithe country, or the whole education rate? —I want it optional. Tf the County Councils and boroughs had the control of education in their respective counties and boroughs, and they had the right, to subsidise the grant, I say- that naturally- the county 7 or borough that wanted a better standard of education would make an effort to give a little towards obtaining it. 85. Supplementary to the Government grant? —Yes. 86. Sir W. B. Bussell.] T want to ascertain why you think that one particular class of pro perty in a county- should pay for the education which owners of other classes of property are deriving the benefit from? —The towns would have the same plan of optional rating that all the boroughs would. 87. Do you know that under the Rating Act only one particular form of property is taxed for county purposes? —I must confess ignorance there, Sir William. I was taking it that property is taxed as property.