G. HOGBEN.]

7

1.—14 a.

28. Those have not been put into force yet ?—No. 29. Will you please tell us shortly what the difference is in the new regulations ?—I only want to deal with this in connection with the pupil-teachers' entrance into the training college I—The1 —The difference is to require everywhere what most Boards in practice now look for —the Sixth Standard or something above it. It puts the Sixth as a minimum. It also aims at giving advantages to those who have passed the Civil Service Junior Examination, which we regard as the test of a two years' education in the secondary classes of a district high school or in a secondary school. It is generally accepted as that everywhere now, and it is the test for the continuation free places. The alteration aims at giving those who have passed the Junior Civil Service Examination an advantage of one year, and those who have passed the Matriculation an advantage of two years, without making it permissive— giving them the right to ask for that. Well, then, instead of four examinations, which, for nine or ten of the Boards were conducted by the Boards themselves, it proposes to give what has been asked for by the Inspectors, by a good number of the Boards, and by the teachers —uniform examination at the end of the second and fourth years, instead of having four examinations, one every year, as there is now. At present a pupil-teacher is doing double work —student work and teaching-practice—and he has to pass a specific examination at the end of each year. This has been felt to be a burden for a great many years. The proposal reduces those examinations to two. Perhaps the circular to the Boards was not quite specific enough in one way : It was stated that the Boards might hold other examinations at the end of the first and third years. The idea was not that those should be examinations in the same subjects at all, but that besides the subjects for the Civil Service Examination and the literary part of the D examination there were such subjects as singing, sewing, manual work, school method, and so on, and what was suggested was that, in the first and third years, the pupil-teachers should, if the Board required it, pass examinations in those subjects ; but it was thought, and I still think, that those examinations might be left to the Boards. We might vary the regulations finally drawn up by saying that a Board might hold examinations in other subjects than those for the second and fourth year in the first and third years, and then there would not be any clashing in the subjects of examination. The object of the regulations was practically to make it possible for every pupil-teacher who passed through his course to be fitted under the conditions for admission to the training college. 30. I do not want to go into the question of the regulations for the pupil-teacher course, except so far as they affect entrance to the training college. But, generally speaking, your suggested regulations would raise the age and increase the standard for entrance upon a pupil-teacher's course ?—Yes; they would increase the standard that nominally exists, but not the standard that practically exists in nearly every district. 31. The suggested regulation would bring them all up to the same minimum standard ?—Yes; but I think there is hardly a district in the colony that would have any difficulty in reaching the minimum that we suggest. 32. The second condition of admission to the training college is that a candidate must have passed the Matriculation Examination. In suggesting that was it your idea that all the pupils being trained for teachers should have matriculated, so that they may, if they see fit, have the benefit of the full University course ? —Yes, I think they should all have matriculated. It is stated, later on, that it is expected that they should attend at least some lectures at the Uinversity. 33. Will there be any difficulty in getting them up to the matriculation standard ? Ido not think so now, especially if preference is given, as is indicated, to those who have been two years at a secondary school or a district high school. It is suggested that preference should be given to them. No objections have been made to that by the Boards. 34. Assuming that the supply cannot be kept up in that way, and you have to take young people even though they have not been two years at a secondary school ?—I think the modification now in practice, agreed to temporarily, might be introduced. 35. You are aware that some Boards say they are doubtful if their pupil-teachers could get up to the matriculation standard ? —We have agreed, temporarily, in Dunedin, that if they have passed the fourth year of their pupil-teacher course, or have obtained a partial D, they should be admitted. But if the Boards properly appreciated the point, they would understand that the Matriculation Examination was a little easier than that test. The objections to the condition are from want of understanding that the Matriculation is really easier than the alternatives suggested. It has five less subjects than the D. 36. Do you think it necessary temporarily to suspend the regulations ?—-I would suspend the condition in this kind -of way : I would say that you could admit all those who had passed in the Matriculation. I would admit all those, and if a certain number were not made up by that means I think that for a time you might give a certain allowance to certain districts; you would name a minimum that you would allow to any district to come if they had passed the fourth-year pupil-teachership. 37. I do not quite understand you ?—Supposing that in any year there should be admitted to a training college forty teachers and you could only get thirty who had passed the Matriculation. There would be ten places open, and you would take from each district a student, or two students, who had certain lower qualifications—who had passed the fourth-year pupil-teacher examination, or had obtained a partial pass. Then, if that did not make up the forty, I would say that without restriction to districts you would take candidates in on the lower qualifications. 38. You would give preference to those who had fulfilled these conditions first of all ? —I think so, first of all, if you can get them. They are of the quality you want. Matriculation is not a very high standard. Ido not think there will be any difficulty about it at all in the future. 39. With regard to subsection (d), some Boards say that the declaration suggested is not sufficient— that candidates ought to be bound more closely :Do you approve of that ? —I think they ought to,