1.—7.

14

[W. E. LOWE.

Bill has, I believe, been questioned a good deal. Two gentlemen whose names I heard read out just now —a Mr. Evans and a Mr. Fountain —have for some time been infringing the Act in this colony. I cannot say if those gentlemen have, but a Mr. Hunter, of Taranaki, has, often been convicted under the Act of 1880. It however seems to be loosely worded, so that a penalty cannot be enforced beyond a merely nominal amount. It seems to me that it would be very unjust to those students who have spent a good deal of time and money on studying —and many of them that I know personally are very worthy and would be an ornament to the profession and do good work; but rather than do what is considered a somewhat underhand thing —to infringe the spirit of the law but not the letter—they have gone on plugging away for years so that they may be able to take an honourable position--it would be rather an injustice to them, I say, if you passed legislation which would admit those who had defied the law for so long and give them an advantage over those who had kept within its limits. Then, clause 22 limits dentists to only two apprentices. I think, if I may say so, that clause might be left out, for two reasons. In the first place, it would tend to monoply by restricting the number of practitioners. We look to the population of this country increasing, consequently the number of practitioners should increase in proportion ; and since the population of the country cannot be limited, I think that the number of practitioners should not be limited either. Furthermore, I might say, with regard to the system of apprenticing, that in great part it is vastly abused. I know of one case in which a young man who showed great ability was kept for eighteen months answering the door and keeping the books —in fact, acting as a page-boy. 1 can give you another instance. I might mention that I get to know of these cases because I take an interest in the young men's education and have a class, and they come to me for advice on a great many matters. This young man complained that his master had been in the habit of sending him out to get domestic articles and to take them to his wife. One day the young man had to take a fish to his master's place, and he objected to this —he thought it hardly came under the heading of "dental education." These are not merely isolated instances; the system is very often abused. 5. Mr. Jennings?] Were premiums imposed in each of those cases? —In the latter case the premium was £150; in the former, as far as I remember, it was only £75. 6. I understood it was £100 —I know the case? —Well, I cannot be sure, but as far as I know it was £75. I may say that I studied first in England —at Guy's Hospital —having my qualification from the Royal College of Surgeons, England. That institution stands very high; in fact, I think it is recognised as standing the highest in the world. When I went over to the University of Pennsylvania to study there I received very great concessions on account of my former work; but Dr. Kirk said to me, " We can never recognise your system of apprenticeship; we can only recognise the work which is certified to by a recognised body. We cannot accept the education given by an irresponsible practitioner, because, though in one case it may be very good, in another case it may be very poor; and how can we put the stamp of an authorised body on the work of an irresponsible individual? " I need not multiply instances showing how the apprenticeship system is abused, both on the part of the master and of the pupil. I almost think that the abuse is equal on both sides. If the education of dental students is entirely in the hands of the Senate, they will set up a school, and this school will teach all apprentices. If the mechanic be included with the operative, the cost of education to the Senate will be reduced tremendously. It is a fairly substantial premium which is asked from pupils, and if the premiums are paid to the Senate that will be a very great help. Again, the work now done by the pupils is of very great service to the masters; that work can be done by journeymen, and thus work can be given to a class of which there are at present very few, simply because the work is done by the apprentices. I know of an establishment where one man is paid from £3 10s. to £4 a week, while at another the man is paid from 15s. to £1. This employer's fees are exactly the same as the fees of nearly all other dentists; and I say that if one man can afford to pay the rate named, another man ought to be able to do so. Then, with regard to the expense of education, if the whole course be done at the University, the cost of education is tremendously lessened. At the University of Pennsylvania, where the whole course is taken by the University, the fee is $100 per annum, which is about £20. 7. Mr. EU.] Of what length is the course? —That is the rate per annum. The course is three or four years —at present it is four years —at the University of Pennsylvania, but when the course was three years the yearly fee was the same. Of course, the fees have to pay for the professors and certain upkeep. Ido not think it makes much difference whether the course is three or four years —the expense per annum and the fee are proportionate. In cases where the master appropriates a very fine fee and has no outlay connected with it, and the final years are served at an institution, the fee is fifty guineas per annum, making the cost of the whole education in the latter case two hundred guineas, whereas in the former it would be £60 or £80. You see the difference there. The difference of £130, or £150 might just as well go to the Senate and provide a better education. 8. Mr. Jennings.] Are those universities endowed by some rich citizens for special purposes?— Yes. The University of Pennsylvania is considerably endowed, but the Dental Board there not only pays all its own expenses, but provides a good deal of revenue for other departments. On the department where such subjects as philosophy and theology are taught there is a debit, whereas the Dental Department shows a credit. I might also mention that when the work is done at these schools there is a small fee —a minimum fee. For instance, dentures are charged for at a trifling amount, which is very little to the patients, but, of course, this keeps down the expense a good deal. I think that is all I have to say, gentlemen. 9. Mr. Sidey.] I understand, doctor, that you attended a hospital in London ?--Yes. 10. Did you take the L.D.S. there?-Yes. - 11. Were you apprenticed to a private practitioner?— Yes. 12. And you afterwards went across to Pennsylvania and took the D.D.S. there? —Yes.