I.—sc.

JAMES SUTHERLAND.)

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175. Do you suffer in any way from the rabbit nuisance?— Yes, considerably; but the rabbits have been considerably reduced. On the other hand, however, our expenses in connection with Hie work are increasing. 176. Is the rabbit nuisance on the decline, or is it increasing I— The rabbits are certainly decreasing —getting fewer in numbers —consequently, the expense of killing them is greater. You have to employ the same number of men, if not more, and they have to travel over a greater area; consequently, you have to pay a higher figure per head. I should like to correct one statement that I made, Mr. Chairman. I stated that our rent was £1,350. That is for the Crown land only. We lease a University endowment of 94,000 acres, for which we pay £3,000 over and above the £1,350. 177. Mr. Harding.] The sheep run over the whole area? —Yes. 178. Mr. Ell.] What relief are you asking for?—We would ask for a reduction in rent, and full valuation for improvements at the termination of our leases. We would ask that if we could surrender them or they were put up to competition we should be allowed full compensation for whatever improvements had been effected. 179. That is the nature of the relief you ask for in consequence of the loss of sheep—reduction in the rent? —Yes. 180. If you were renting a run from a private owner would you expect him to grant you any relief? Is it usual for a tenant of a private owner's run to get any relief if he experiences a bad year,'or meets with misfortune, and loses sheep or crops through a storm? —I do not really know whether it is usual or not. I think I have heard of oases wheie it has been done. William Buhnett examined. (No. 7.) Mr. Burnett: Mr. Chairman and Gentlemen, —I have here a short written statement, and it will save time if I read it to you. 1 want first, however, to bear out what Mr. Sutherland has said about the idea that Dalgety and Co. (Limited) own all these runs. They have far too much sense to own land in central Otago. They only act as agents. Morven Hills Station belongs to two individuals, of whom, unfortunately, lam one. This written statement of mine is borne out by our balance-sheets, and Mr. McWhirter, our manager, will bear out what I say in it. It is as follows: Sir, I appear as a partner in the Morven Hills Station to ask you either to accept a surrender of our country or to make such concessions as will enable us to exist. The capital of the original partnership formed to work this property was £142,000. In 1882 this was written down to £100,000, afterwards to £50,000, then to £38,000, and when again adjusted after the snowstorm of 1903 will probably stand at £20,000, or the sum we have actually expended in permanent improvements. In the three years following 1882 we lost in cash £18,855, and have lost money ever since till the last three years, and were in hopes of at least getting some interest, not on our money lost, but on the capital written down. These hopes have been blasted by the great storm of 1903, and we now can only ask your consideration. The late Sir John McKenzie, a practical farmer himself, not only reduced our rents after the terrible storm of 1895, but also lengthened the term of our leases; and in New South Wales the Government have, since 1892, reduced the rentals on pastoral holdings from £447,656 to £125,000--a concession of £322,656 --in order to preserve a great industry. Personally, I would ask you to take our country -365,000 acres will go far to allay the earth-hunger existing in Otago. I beg to hand you .i statement of the returns for the last ten years of our working, also a statement of the returns for twenty-one years —since I was a partner —and I will ask Mr. McWhirter, who has been in charge of the property, to give you some information as to the losses of stock during his management. In doing so I would like to state that we have always had the fullest confidence in his ability and integrity, and have felt that if any man could have made our property successful financially he could have done so. I mention this because it might be said, " You have not had a good manager," and I wish to say that we have had a good manager. I will also ask Mr. Scaife, of Mount Pisa Station, to give evidence as to the excessive rentals paid hy Morven Hills in comparison with neighbouring runs. That is all my statement. And if you will allow Mr. McWhirter who has been the practical manager of the station to appear I shall be glad. 181. Hon. Mr. Duncan.] You said that the New South Wales Government had reduced rentals by £322,000: that could not be on account of a snowstorm? —Oh, no; but sheep-farmers, since the time of Noah, seem to have been perseculed people. The drought was the destroying agent in New South Wales. I was merely pointing out that the New South Wales Government thought the industry was so valuable that they made that concession in order to keep the men on the ground. 182. The drought was a more serious matter to them than the snowstorm was to us?— Every man has to carry his own burden, and, surely, ours has been a grievous one. I was only mentioning it as a matter of policy. 183. It seems a reflection by you on the Government if they do not reduce your rents also? — Oh, no; I was simply quoting that another and neighbouring Government did this. I certainly would not reflect on the Government. 184. You gave the New South Wales case as a reason why assistance should be given here? — I gave also as a reason that this Government did the same thing before; so that I cannot be reflecting on you. I was thanking the late Sir John McKenzie for his concessions. 185. But the Government had no statement that the New South Wales Government made such a reduction at that time? —Oh, no. _ 186. So that Ido not see how the New South Wales reduction would apply at all to us?—lt is merely a matter of policy as to whether an industry is worth preserving. The New South Wales Government may have thought it was, and they made that reduction in order to keep their country occupied.