L—lo.

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\C. A, PIPEE.

3. As the result of your investigations since you were last here, can you inform the Committee whether the capital of the old company in 1899, when the new company was formed, was £11,000? —That is so. I may say that the total amount paid up was £11,000, and the dividends were paid on the basis of £11,000. 4. As the result of your investigations, can you say what is the total amount that the old company which was wound up in November, 1902, received for its business? —According to their balance-sheet for the year ended the 30th June. 1902, they had £5,780 3s. 9d. in their reserve fund, £1,947 16s. Bd. cash in hand, £1,285 2s. Id. owing by sundry debtors, and £137 10s. due from the Government for the mail subsidy, wdiich was paid shortly afterwards, giving a total of £9,150 12s. 6d. Against that there has to be deducted for creditors £564 10s. 10d., which leaves the net amount they had in cash at that time £8,586 Is. Bd. Then, in October, when they wound up, they show another balance-sheet, as follows: Profit for July, August, September, and October, £622 16s. lid.; interest on the amounts, which is given as £238 16s. 2d.; paid by the Government, £15,000; interest on this item, £393 10s. Bd. ; and refund of insurance, £53 19s. 7d. The total of these figures comes to £24,895 55., which includes everything. That money has been divided as follows: Their last annual dividend is given at ,£l,<SOO, and they paid a first dividend of 14s. in the pound on the winding-up of the company, which absorbed £21,000. Then they paid a final dividend of 3.84 d., which comes to £484 os. 7d. That is the total amount of money that was actually divided amongst the shareholders, and it equals £23,280 os. 7d. To that sum should be added, to make the balance-sheet complete, £750, which they paid for commission in connection with the sale of their boats, and incidental expenses put down at £304 9s. lid., making together £1,054 9s. lid. Their legal expenses and auditing came to about £240; office salaries —which included Captain Wing's salary for, I think, four months —£384; and they also show another item in loss on coal and timber business for that four months (they were carrying on a coal and timber trade in addition to their other business) of £66 10s. Now, if you add to the total the amount they show as goodwill, £4,286 17s. 6d., the gross total comes up to over £29,000. 5. They have received a total, including the reserve fund and cash in hand and amount due from sundry debtors, together with the amount received from the Government, of £24,895? —Yes. 6. That £24,000 they received was for the same properties that were represented by the old company's capital as £11,000? —That is so, the property was exactly the same. The only difference was that they spent some money on the " Ben Lomond " and " Mountaineer " steamers, and also at Frankton, but, generally speaking, the property was exactly the same. 7. Mr. Lawry.] They got 100 per cent, on it? —More than that. 8. Hon. Sir J. G. Ward.] A statement was made before the Committee that for some years the company did not pay? —I understood from information I gathered at Queenstown that they did not pay any dividends for a few years; but there is no doubt that on the £11,000 capital their dividends went up to 25 per cent, or close on 30 per cent. 9. You say that the old company paid dividends close up to 30 per cent. ? —Yes. In fact, that is proved by their prospectus, if my memory is right. They show that the company was paying 10 per cent, on £30,000; and, if that is so, they would pay nearly 30 per cent, on £11,000. 10. The new company added no new steamers to their business from 1899 to 1902? —No. 11. A statement was made to the Committee by Captain Wing that they had to make up by then charges in summer for the losses they sustained by carrying on the business during the winter months. Will you look at the amount set down for profit for the months of July, August, September, and October in 1902 and state what it was? -The profit upon the actual working was £622 16s. lid. 12. That is for the winter months? —That is for what are called the dead months of the year. 13. The mixing-up of the old company with the new company causes rather a fog as to what the shareholders have received. You might state what the terms were when Mr. Shrimpton took the company in hand?— When the company was re-formed under what is called the " Shrimpton company," his terms were £15,000 cash and £15,000 shares. That is to say, he was practically giving £30,000 to the new company for what stood in the books at that time at £11,000. Mr. Shrimpton got a certain commission for his trouble, which has been variously stated, but from what I can gather I believe it was £600 or more. I rather think it was more. Taking it at £600 and the share-list at £30,000, by deducting the £600 from that it leaves £29,400, and that works out at equal to £2 13s. 6d. per share for the old shareholders. 14. The shareholders all took shares in the new company, with a paper capital of £30,000? — That is so. 15. Am I right in saying that the realisation which took, place in the winding-up in 1902 would give the old shareholders, who constituted part of the new company and participated in the dividend in the November winding-up, equal to £2 13s. 6d. per share? —I do not know as to that. The original shareholders would get equal to £2 13s. 6d. per share, and when the final dividend was paid to them they would be paid lis. 3.84 d. per share, the same as all the other shareholders. 16. Now, with regard to the reserve fund, that appears in the balance-sheet for the 30th June, 1902, at £5,780 3s. 9d. What amount did Captain Wing tell you it was when you were investigating on behalf of the Government in Queenstown ? —I asked Captain Wing if he would let me see his balance-sheets or would tell me what the condition of his finances was, and he gave me to understand that the whole of his reserve and book debts amounted, roughly, to £2,000 or £3,000. When I got the amount the other day it was found to be £8,586. 17. And at the time you were investigating on behalf of the Government he stated that they amounted to £2,000 or £3,ooo?—That is so. 18. So that information was withheld to the extent of between £5,500 and £6,soo?—That is so.