I.—loa.

66

[G. ANDERSON.

experience in iiue trade we shall be glad to reeive your views on the matter. We desire to know whether you consider it would improve the condition of the meat trade if a policy of that kind were followed, or whether it would be likely to prove injurious ?—I may say that we at one time started the shop scheme ourselves. In 1898 we opened a shop in Cardiff, our idea at that time being that it was necessary to advertise the meat." I must say, however, that the scheme was not a success. It cost us, under the very favourable circumstances we were working it, something like £300 a year. 50. That was the amount of loss ?—Yes. 51. Mr. Woodley managed it, did he not?— Yes. Our idea was to get the frozen meat into the higher-class trade, but we found that that particular trade not only required the lamb and mutton we had to sell, but also calves and bullocks that we had not got to sell. I have the correspondence in connection with the matter with me, and I notice that one remark states that a very weak spot is that they have to sell American beef. I may say that this was a very great disappointment to me personally, because I held at that time that the shops were an ideal way of extending the trade. Another great difficulty we had—which, I may say, is not confined to the Old Country—was in getting efficient and honest management. Although one does not care to refer to it—and I do not know whether it is confined to the butchering trade —but it is said that it is more difficult to get what belongs to you in this trade than in any other. Another statement made in this correspondence is that " the shops give great offence to the trade as a whole." I think that is all I need say so far as the Cardiff shop is concerned. I went into the question very fully when I was at Home, some two years and a half ago. Whatever was the necessity existing for these shops when they were opened, Ido not think it exists now. I might state that we have an office in Liverpool and another in Bristol. We have a sub-agency in Glasgow, and are working right up as far as Dundee and Edinburgh. I myself got our meat into the best shops in Edinburgh. Right up as far as Dundee the better class of butcher shops take our meat, and what I found a great help was that the better class of provision-shops are openly advertising that the meat is New Zealand meat. I think the scheme was wanted some ten or twelve years ago, but I really do not see the need for it now. Personally I would like to see the Government spend the money which the shops would cost in judicious advertising. The kind of advertising I would advocate would be in the magazines which circulate throughout the country, and that every brand of meat should be advertised on large plates put up on the railway stations. I found when I was at Home that there was a strong British sentiment, and I think what we should do is to play to that sentiment. 52. Hon. Sir J. G. Ward] What do you mean by the term " British" :do you use it as applied to England and Wales or to the Empire? —The Empire as against the River Plate, or American meat. No doubt there would be some advertising advantages obtained from this shop scheme, but I think we could advertise more cheaply. The shops themselves would not have the desired effect unless they were advertised, because I take it that the towns the shops were located in would be larger than Wellington—they would be somewhat on the same scale that our Cardiff shop was. If you were to put one shop, say, in Manners.Street or Willis Street without advertising it, there would be very few people who would take the trouble to find out where it was. You can really do nothing nowadays unless you cry out or placard as the Americans do. There is a statement made in Mr. Cameron's paper which I think it is best to correct: that is, with regard to the distribution of our meat. I found New Zealand frozen meat in every town in Scotland of any size right up to Dundee. I started from London and zigzagged up the north-east coast as far as Dundee, where I found it. I came back on the other side, where I picked up a little of it in Inverness, but it was very marked in Glasgow and right away down to Carlisle. I saw it. It was to be seen in the towns in and around Manchester—very little in Manchester, strange to say—very prominently in -Liverpool, and right away down in the west of England. You would not only see frozen meat there, but it would be advertised as frozen meat and Canterbury meat, and you would see the tickets hanging on the sheep. Some would not have the ticket and one might have a suspicion that it was not New Zealand meat ; but I think that difficulty might be got over. The plan I have this season is to have a piece of wire with a lead seal to take the place of the ticket if it is removed. The disadvantage we suffer under is, that there is no concentration or any individual whose particular business it is to personally canvass or advertise New Zealand meat as against River Plate or Australian meat. Of course, during the last two years we have not felt Australian competition, but we undoubtedly shall now. Ido not think the form of advertising referred to by Mr. Cameron would be effective without the other kind of advertising, and the other advertising would be quite as effective without the shops. There is one difficulty that any one opening shops for New Zealand would have to contend against which the River Plate people would not have. I take it that our meat must appeal to the better class of people if we are to get the retail prices we are aiming at. You can only do that by opening up expensive shops that would require close supervision and fairly costly management. The Eiver Plate people opened up small insignificant shops quite close to each other, and these shops manage themselves. The managing director of one of the large distributing companies at Home says, in reference to this plan, that " all the men in all the shops would not start stealing at once." I do not think the profits referred to in Mr. Cameron's paper would be realised. From our experience, and from the very close examination of men in our employ, we find you cannot cut 58 lb. of mutton out of a6O lb. sheep. The calculation would be much nearer 54 lb. Then it is quite possible, from what I found out at Home, to get the price put down for legs, shoulders, and loins; and Ido not think you would be able to get quit of the necks and breasts at anything like the price referred to. I have already mentioned the necessity of supplying a quantity of beef. In an ordinary butcher's shop I do not think you could sell the number of lambs referred to in proportion to the mutton that he has got down here. Of course, if you could it would be a profitable business. The estimated cost of fitting up the shops is, on the whole, accurate, within, perhaps, some 10 per cent. ; but for the class of business I do not think it