F. WILLIAMS.]

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freely ? —No, Ido not think so. They might have said something to the effect that they had cut themselves adrift from the bakers. 124. You do not remember the exact words ?—No. 125. Do you know anything about the "price committee" of the Bakers' Union? —Not much. 126. You are not on the price committee ?—No. 127. You know there was such a committee?— Yes. 128. Do you remember that there were representatives of the Bakers' Union and representatives of the Millers' Association on that committee ? —Most of the time millers were on it, but the latter part of the time they were not. 129. You do not know whether the withdrawal of the millers from the price committee was at about the same date as they commenced to supply you with flour again ? —No; I think they were off some months before that. 130. Apart from Chrystall and Co., did you never have any reason given for not supplying you with flour?— No. 131. You have always paid your bills to Chrystall and Co. ?—Yes. 132. And to the association ?—Yes. 133. You have not defaulted with the association at all? —No. 134. You still continue to do your cash counter trade?— Yes. 135. Did any of the bakers at any time see you about your attitude ?—No, I do not think so. 136. They never personally interfered with you?— No. 137. Your troubles were with the Millers' Association? —Yes, 138. Is there any other fact that you think the Committee ought to know that would be likely to help them in coming to a decision on this matter ?—No. 139. Did the refusal of the Millers' Association to supply you involve you in expense and trouble? —Yes. 140. A great deal of trouble ?—There is no doubt about it. I should not like to put in another six months like it. 141. Was your trade really endangered by their action?— Certainly it was. I did not know from one month to another when I should have to stop, because it was impossible to get flour. 142. That seemed to be their policy—to close you up because you insisted on running your business on lines that you thought would pay you ?—That was simply the trouble. 143. Were there many bakers standing out against the association?— There would be about five. 144. Of whom you were the largest and baked most bread ?—Yes. 145. You think that one of the means of preventing the Millers' Association forming a combination again that will restrict your freedom would be the removal of the restrictions on flour by taking off the duty ? —Yes. 146. Some of the large millers have seceded from the association : do you think if they came into line and again joined the association there would be a prospect of their acting in the same way again ? —I could not say. 147. But as a man of ordinary judgment would you think so?—I would not care to say. 148. Mr. Hall.] You say you had no difficulty in purchasing flour before the association was formed ? —That is so. 149. But since you resigned from the Bakers' Association you had that difficulty ?—Yes. 150. While you were a member of the Bakers' Association there were proposals at various times to put up the price of bread ?—Yes. 151. That would be relative to the rise in the price of flour, of course ?—Yes. 152. Was it generally known to the Bakers' Association that the price of bread was so exceedingly cut as to make the sale of it almost unprofitable ?—Well, it has been at times. 153. At the time you seceded from the Bakers' Association what were you selling your bread at ?—6d. and 7d per 4 lb. loaf. 154. That would be 6d. over the counter and 7d. delivered ?—Yes. 155. And you objected to the Master Bakers' Association fixing the one price ?—Yes. 156. That was the reason of your resignation?— Yes. 157. Have you ever found the price of bread cut in such a way as to prevent the baking trade being profitable ? —Cut to the extent that, say, there was only a bare living to be made out of it. 158. Has that frequently been the case ?—Yes, very frequently. 159. Then, it was the endeavour of the Master Bakers' Association to put the baking trade on a healthier basis? —Yes, that was what they were trying to do, I suppose. 160. And they could only do that by regulating the price ? —Yes. 161. After you resigned from the Master Bakers' Association you were refused flour by the Millers' Association ?—Yes. 162. Do you remember on what occasion ? Can you tell the Committee on how many occasions you were refused flour ? —On about four different occasions. 163. Four different occasions on which you could not possibly get flour from the Millers' Association ?—That is so. 164. Who did you see on those occasions—Mr. Jameson ?—I saw Mr. Jameson once, and the other times it would be Mr. Buchanan. 165. Were there reasons given?— Through not being a member of the Master Bakers' Association. 166. That was the reason given by Mr. Jameson ?—Yes; Mr. Jameson gave me that reason at the time I wanted to give an order for 50 or 100 tons.