P. WILLIAMS.]

11

I.—lo.

48. Are these the rules of the union you are a member of [produced] ?—Yes. 49. Have you since the formation of the Flour-millers' Association experienced any difficulty in getting your supplies of flour ? —Yes, I have. 50. Will you tell the Committee what the cause of the trouble was?— When the Bakers' Association was first formed there were two prices for bread, a delivery price and a shop price. Then they brought in a rule that there should be only one price. 51. Is that one of the rules in these published rules?— No. It was decided by the union that there should be but one price, and that the price over the counter should be the same as the delivery or cart price. 52. Did you protest against that decision ?—Yes. 53. What difference in price were you making as between the counter price and the delivery price ? —ld. per loaf of 4 lb. 54. Did it pay you to do that ? —Yes, it is the best counter price. 55. Would you prefer to have a counter trade rather than sell bread at the cart for Id. more for a 41b. loaf ? —Yes. 56. What attitude did the Bakers' Union take up towards you when you decided on the course you took ? —Of course I had to resign, or J did resign, because I knew I should be breaking the rules if I did not do as they wished. 57. Before you resigned did they levy any fine upon you ?—Just after. 58. For that offence ?—Yes. 59. Mr. Hall.] You say you were fined for that ?—I was fined for having a shop price and a delivery price. 60. Mr. Taylor.] Was that the first intimation you received that the union fined you for having the two prices ?—Yes, that was the first one. 61. That is where they say in a letter to you [Exhibit H] that they fined you £2? —Yes. 62. Subsequently, on the 16th October, 1902, you received the second letter [Exhibit G] ?— Yes. 63. That is notifying you that you had been fined £5, and subsequently, on the 21st October, you received a further communication [Exhibit F], notifying you that you had been fined £12 ?— Yes. 64. Did you pay those fines? —No. 65. And they did not take any steps to recover them ? —No. 66. Had you any difficulty in getting your flour from the Millers' Association up to the time you left the Bakers' Union ? —None. 67. Did you have any difficulty soon afterwards?— Yes; the supply was stopped, bar what had to be delivered—a quantity brought forward. 68. The Flour-millers' Association refused to supply you with any flour, except what had been contracted for, after you severed your connection with the Bakers' Union ? —Yes. 69. Now, at the prices you fixed for the sale of your bread on the counter, were they profitable prices to you ?—Yes. 70. You could pay the full union wages and make a good profit ?—Yes. 71. Had you a considerable number of customers for your counter trade?— Yes; the bulk of my trade was counter trade. 72. You had reasons for thinking then that the wishes of the union if complied with would have spoiled the best of your business ?—lt would have done. 73. And that was your reason for dropping out?— Yes. 74. What happened when you tried to get your supplies of flour after that? Did you apply to the Millers' Association in the ordinary way ?—Yes. 75. What kind of application did you make ? —I think I always went myself to the office. 76. Was that to see Mr. Jameson or Mr. Buchanan?—l think I saw both. 77. Did you put in a written application for flour?—No; I went myself, so as to avoid any bother. 78. What quantities would you apply for ordinarily ?—lO, 20, or 25 tons. 79. Did the association decline to sell to you ?—Yes. 80. Did they give you any reason ? —The reason was that I was not a member of the Bakers' Association. 81. Had you any difficulty in knowing that that was the cause—that you refused to give up your cash trade ?—They knew. 82. You are satisfied of that?— Yes. 83. Was it openly admitted by them that that was the reason? —Yes. 84. By others?— Yes. 85. How did you get your flour ?—We got it in all manner of ways for a time—in the best way we could. 86. Did you buy flour from the Irwell Mill ?—Yes. 87. Will you read this letter [produced]. Is that the letter you received from the owner of the Irwell Mill [Exhibit 1] ?—Yes, from Mr. Heslop. 88. Did you get any flour from him at all ? —Yes, a good bit. 89. The letter reads : " Irwell, 13th October, 1902.—Mr. F. Williams.—Dear Sir,—l will send to you on Wednesday sixty sacks of flour. The fifteen sacks you sent me have arrived. I don't know how I will act yet in regard to the Millers' Association. They have—or, rather, Trapnell, one of them, has—threatened to make prices so low that if done will either force me in or shut my mill for a time, as at the price of wheat I cannot sell less than £10 10s., 2f off. He (Trapnell) says the association are going to help him run me off. However, I will let you know as soon as I can how it will affect me.—Yours, &c., Geo. Heslop." Did you receive this also from Mr. Heslop later on ? —Yes.