9

A.—3b

Eon. Mr. Bowen : I should like to distinctly point out that the question was asked whether they wished that a license should be given to any one for the sale of liquor under any circumstances. There were two repetitions of the answer as far as I can gather ; I may be wrong. Eev. Mr. Lawrence having interpreted,— Pα Ariki: We are not fully enlightened about the white man's usage in regard to this matter. We have never had a hotel on the island, and we do not know thoroughly about the different ways in which a hotel may be managed, and it is for you, the members, to enlighten us in this matter. Hon. members : Hear, hear. Mr. Barber: A question might be asked to illustrate this matter. Is it not possible for the Natives to get as much liquor as they like at any time from shops on this island, almost openly ? Mr. Fisher: I challenge that statement. Ask the honourable member to obtain any liquor. I know of no such place. Will the honourable member please mention that place ? Hon. Mr. Mills : That is not the point; it is a question as to whether the Arikis consider the time has arrived when a house of the description mentioned by Pa Ariki and myself should be erected, in order that tourists and others who care to come here may obtain accommodation for themselves and their families on the island. Mr. Fisher: Every sensible man understands that. Hon. Mr. Bigg : I would like to ask a rather important question on a matter that has not been mentioned. I would like to know whether the Ariki is prepared to approve of establishing schools on the New Zealand system, at which attendance should be compulsory, and which should be secular in their instruction. Bey. Mr. Lawrence ; I cannot frame your question for you ; will you kindly put the question direct, and I will interpret. Hon. Mr. Bigg: Do you approve, Pa Ariki, of the Government establishing schools here, at which the education would be free of charge, the attendance compulsory, and the education secular, as in the part of New Zealand that we come from? Pα Ariki : That is our thought and our wish, that our children should be taught all useful knowledge ; that those who have been taught in our school should in turn become teachers in other places. We wish that our children should be taught, and that if the Government is to do it, well, let the Government do it accordingly. Mr. Fisher : The question, I take it, is this : Do they believe in the teaching of secular instruction to the entire exclusion of all religious instruction ? Pα Ariki: The missionaries have looked after and still look after the religious instruction of the children. Mr. T. Mackenzie : I should like to know if they approve of selling their lands, if they would not rather retain a system of leasehold, and if they would not like a law passed to prevent the sale of land ? Pα Ariki : The questions have now come upon the subject of the sale of land. This is our wish, and that is that it should be leasehold. Mr. Fowlds : And sales prohibited ? Pα Ariki : We do not wish the sale of our land ; no. Colonel Gudgeon : At present we are leasing land to Europeans under a proper lease at a yearly rental, for purposes according to the wish of the lessee, and for periods of fifty, sixty, and seventy years, as well as for smaller periods. The land is let at from 4s. to 10s. per acre per annum. Mr. T. Mackenzie : The next question is, Do they prefer that system to their own system of cultivation, and if that system is adopted by Europeans what effect will it have upon the Natives ? Pα Ariki : What do you exactly mean ? Mr. T. Mackenzie : What I mean is this: supposing land is leased to Europeans and cultivated by them only, the Natives receiving the rents, what would be the effect on the Natives by their having no work to do ? Pα Ariki: This is how it is: the lands which have been in our hands, and are in our hands, but are uncultivated —these are the lands that we are now putting into the hands of white people. All the lands that are now in the hands of our people shall remain with our people. Hon. members : Hear, hear. Sir W. J. Steward (addressing Hon. Mr. Mills) : I should like to ask, sir, if the Arikis would give us clearly to understand what they mean when they use the word " we." What is the tenure of the land ? Does the land belong to the Arikis personally, or is it tribal land ? Pα Ariki : This is the custom from our fathers : The Ariki—that is, the King (or Queen) —has his land. Now, he puts that land into the hands of his people. The Mataiapo owns his land. He also has that land in the hands of his people. Following the chief there is the Komono, and he also holds land, and is linked with the chicf —is under the chief. The land is in his hands and the hands of his people. The word about the people on his land is with the chief to whom he adheres. Now, when the chief has any work in hand he sends his messengers to the Komono and to the Kiato under him. Then they do what the chief requires; they bring whatever he has instructed them to bring. Concerning the Arikis, they have under them Rangatiras, and these Rangatiras are usually the younger members and branches of the kingly family. And there is their subdivision of land in their own hands. But the power over these Eangatiras is with the Ariki. When the Ariki has work in hand he sends word to these Eangatiras of his, and they come at the summons of the Ariki, and do what is to be done, when anything is required in the way of food, or so on. This is our system on the land here. Hon. Mr. Mills : Ask him, Mr. Lawrence, please, whether all these various holdings have natural and fixed boundaries. 2—A. 3b.