HENRY BETTS.]

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I.—4a.

342. Can you understand how it is that they, well-known residents of Reefton for some years, never heard of such a request until lately?—l cannot understand it. Of course, they are not connected with the miners' union in any way; but it is well known to every member of the union that the request has been made by the union time after time. 343. Mr. Colvin.] Can you tell me whether the conditions under which the miners work have improved of late years—whether the mines are in a better condition than they were a few years ago ?—The mines, as far as the actual workings, the timbering, and so on, are concerned, are just as good as they were. But a new system of mining has been adopted in our district, which applies to coal-mines as well as quartz-mines. I mean that rock-drills are used now, but they were not used in our district years ago. They make the occupation more unhealthy. There is more dust m the mines, and there are more fumes, because more blasting-material is used with the machines than by hand-labour. Another thing is this : Years ago the workings were very shallow, and the ventilation was undoubtedly better. Now, as the mines get deeper, the air gets warmer, and the ventilation is not so good. 344. You do not think the conditions are as favourable for the health of the miners now as they were ?—No, I should say not. They are not so good. 345. To your own knowledge, is as much quartz produced on the days preceding holidays and Sundays as in the ordinary course of events—i.e., on other working-days ?—No, Ido not think as much is produced on the days preceding days when the mines lie idle. On such days the miners produce very little quartz. They are generally employed in securing their faces prior to leaving them till after the holiday or the Sunday, as the case may be; consequently on such a day there would not be so much quartz broken as on other days. It is always the custom in mines to secure the faces prior to a holiday. 346. Mr. R. McKenzie.] Do you remember stating, when you were examined before, that at Reefton the men do not change shifts at the face ?—Yes, certainly. I said that it had never been the custom in the Reefton district to change shifts at the face. 347. And that it was not at all necessary that the men should change there?—Certainly not. 348. Do you remember the Minister of Mines stating that it was always considered necessary to change shifts at the face at the Thames?—He did not say that it was considered necessary; he said that it was the custom. 349. Do you recollect saying that you knew it was not the custom at Waihi ?—I told him that it was not the custom. 350. Have you communicated with the Thames Miners' Union since then ?—I have communicated with the secretary to the union on two occasions since then. 351. On this question of changing shifts at the face?—Yes. 352. Perhaps I had better not continue my questions till the Minister of Mines comes in. 353. Mr. Herries.] Mr. Guinness asked you a question as to whether any candidate for Parliament had been approached with regard to this question of eight hours from bank to bank, including meal-time ? —Yes. 354. You said they had been approached?—Yes. 355. Was it made a condition with candidates that they should support the proposal before the miners' union would vote for them?—Yes, it has been a condition. 356. Therefore any candidate who advocates it does so in order to get the miners' vote ? I would not say so. Ido not think any candidate would advocate it unless he thought it to be just and proper. 357. You say that the miners' union would not vote for a candidate unless he did advocate the proposal ?—I did not say so. 358. I thought you said that advocating the proposal was a condition ?—Certainly; it was one of the planks. 359. Was it a condition of getting the miners' vote that a candidate would do his best to support them ?—Naturally, the miners' union would support the candidate who was inclined to support what they required. That is only natural. 360. I think you said that the question had been a plank of their platform for six years ? Yes ; I can go further, and say it was on the union's platform ten or twelve years ago. 361. Why is it that when sittings of the Arbitration Court have been held applications for the eight hours from bank to bank have not been made ?—Applications have been made. I can assure you that an application was made in our case, and we got a concession at the time. We did not get all we asked for, but we got a concession. 362. A document was handed in by Mr. Free showing the demands of the union in 1899. Those demands, as far as we could see, did not contain any application that the eight hours should be taken from bank to bank?—l could not speak as to that particular case. 363. What award are the gold-miners working under now ?—Under an industrial agreement. 364. Was the eight hours from bank to bank system demanded when that industrial agreement was entered into ?—No, Ido not think so. I think I gave evidence before on that point, stating the reasons why it was not asked for—viz., that we agreed with almost everything else in the reference at that time, and did not wish this matter to be a bar to the agreement being brought about. I also said that we relied on getting Parliament to deal with the matter. 365. What I want to get at is this: A mine-manager, taking the demands made by the men would not have any knowledge that they desired the eight hours from bank to bank system if no reference was made to it in the demands ?—Most decidedly. I suppose the mine-manager would know that the men desired it as well as they themselves, because managers are generally acquainted with what is going on. There is no doubt about that. 366. Would not a mine-manager take it that if the men desired a thing they would make application for it when making an industrial agreement ?—There are many things in connection