I.—ll

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48. And that £1,000 was offered for it? —I do not know. 49. Is it not suggestive to you, as showing that there is not the demand for land which you suggest?—lt looks very much so from what you state. 50. You suggested that the total number of persons who would have been in Westland if the railway was completed was 47,250 ?—I do not think I spoke of the total number who would be there. I spoke of the total loss in population, and estimated it at 2,700. 51. You went on to the Customs, and estimated a loss of £47,250? —Yes. 52. And you claim the whole of that as a loss to the colony ?—No; I claimed that as the loss to Westland, and said that it should be reduced by one-third to show the loss to the colony, which would, therefore, be £31,500. 53. What proportion of these people must have gone away?— Say two-thirds, or, roughly speaking, eighteen hundred. 54. You suggest that eighteen hundred people who left Westland left New Zealand altogether ?—That is my estimate. I have cross-examined old settlers there, who have complained to me that their sons had no opportunity of obtaining land, and had, therefore, gone away to the other colonies. 55. Mr. J. Allen.] About these timber areas where the sawmills are, how did they get their licenses?— They got them partly from the Warden off the mining reserves and partly from the company's land. It was understood that the money received by the company for the timber licenses was to be placed in a suspense account, which it was intended to deal with when the Government came to square up with the company. 56. Was there any difficulty in getting areas for sawmills ?—There were great difficulties. In my time Mr. Alan Scott, Mr. Wilson, and the Government had meetings and correspondence about the matter over and over again. At that time they would not allow anybody to get timber on the land in the area marked blue in the map; but afterwards it was arranged in that way that the proceeds from the timber should be placed in a suspense account until there should be a final settlingup between the Government and the company. 57. In later times there has been no difficulty in getting sawmill areas because of the reservation ? —I believe there are sawmillers here who will be able to speak definitely on that point. I can only speak from hearsay. 58. Dr. Findlay.] Do you know clause 33 of the contract, which provides for meeting any difficulties in the way of settlement, and that, although the company cannot issue license, there can be an arrangement by which it can be granted ?—I know that section was in existence, and it was in question when the matter was arranged. 59. Mr. J. Allen.] I understand the railway is constructed from Still water and then on to Jackson's. That is all there is in Westland ?—That is so. I do not know how I got mixed up, but somehow I thought the line went along the east side of the Arnold Eiver. 60. Mr. Guinness.] You are quite right; it is not all in Westland. It goes along the north side of the river and then crosses the boundary-line and comes into Westland again. 61. Mr. J. Allen.] I want to know the loss on account of the timber. There is no difficulty in getting a timber license, and the railway is constructed to the port, and they can get the timber away by sea, and the only difference is in the means of transit to the port?— Yes. 62. Are there other areas for which licenses have been granted?— Yes. 63. How did they get them ? —lt must have been under this section of the contract that the Government made the arrangement. Before I left the district the Government were asked to draft timber regulations, and they did so; but some of them were objected to. Then the company were requested to draft regulations, and they did so ; but there were objections to them also on the part of the Government. Ido not know what was done afterwards, because I left for Auckland. 64. I do not know upon what you ground the estimate that two out of three of those people who have left the district have gone out of the colony?—lt is very difficult to prove that. One person is very optimistic, and another is quite the contrary in regard to the matter, but I think that is a fair estimate. 65. Mr. Guinness.] You said that you estimated that in fourteen years 760 applications would have been made for 88,000 acres ?—That is so. 66. In giving that answer and calculating your estimate have you taken into consideration the area of land in the district available for settlement ?—Yes. I know pretty well what is the area available for settlement. I' would put it down roughly at about half. There are about 220,000 acres in the " blue " reservation. Of course, that would be pasture land. 67. Is it not a fact that the lands applied for were principally for agricultural purposes?—l think so. 68. Do you not think this 88,000 acres would exhaust nearly the whole of the agricultural land in the 220,000 acres in the reservation which you say would be available for settlement ?— Perhaps it would. I could not say definitely. 69. Out of the acres what quantity do you think would be available for grazing purposes and what for agricultural purposes ?—Say, 100,000 for agricultural and 120,000 for grazing. 70. Is that a mere guess ?—lt is more than a guess; it is taken from the knowledge I have of the place. 71. Have you any papers or documents to show it ? —No, I have not got any. 72. Mr. Bell.] Your estimate is that about 220,000 acres are available for settlement out of the " blue " reservation in Westland?—Yes. 73. When you speak of settlement do you mean for close settlement or for pastoral purposes? —Large areas for pastoral purposes. 74. How many sheep would it carry to the acre?— One sheep.