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Wμ. Jones and D. McLaren in attendance and examined. (No. 14.) 1. The Chairman.] You represent one of the Trades and Labour Councils ? — Mr. Jones : Yes. 2. We have received a communication from you containing certain suggestions with regard to this amendment; I presume you desire to give evidence in support of those amendments ?—Yes. Of course we can only follow up the suggestions that have been made by the Council. I might say, for the benefit of members of this Committee, that the Council went exhaustively into the Bill and took the whole of the matter seriatim. They are very pleased with a large portion of it, and think there are reforms intended in the Bill that are in the right direction. There are some portions of the Bill that the Council has already drawn the Committee's attention to, and I think it states specifically what they are. In the first place, clause 5, subsection (3) (h) —" No member shall discontinue his membership without giving at least three months' previous notice to the secretary of intention so to do, nor until such member has paid all fees or other dues," &c. ; the Council would like to have inserted there " fines or levies." There is no provision for recovering fines or levies. When it was submitted to a legal authority for an interpretation the legal authority was of opinion that the word " dues " would not cover it. 3. Mr. Collins.] The wording is all right ; the word " other" would be suggestive ; it does not put dues in the same category as fees, does it ?—Well, the reason for this is that a number of small unions might find it necessary to levy the members in certain cases, say, of expenses in connection with proceedings before the Arbitration Court. The society in the ordinary state of its funds would not be in a position to liquidate the liability; consequently it would be necessary to strike a levy. Of course there must be provision made, and there may be people who decline to pay these levies unless it was shown in the rules that there was power to enforce them. Page 5, clause 8, subsection (2)—" For the purposes of this Act every branch of a trade union," &c.; that is all right, but on taking a jump over to clause 14, on page 7, there would be likely, looking at it from our point of view, to be trouble. 4. Mr. Hutcheson.] A conflict between the two clauses—subsection (2) of clause 8 and subsection (1) of clause 14 ?—Yes. Clause 14, subsection (1) —" In addition to its registered office an industrial union may also have a branch office," &c.; looking down the interpretation clause in the Bill there is nothing whatever that defines a branch office, and there is no interpretation of the powers of a branch office ; and the powers of a branch office may in this way be misconstrued, more especially as subsection (2) of clause 8 says, " Every branch of a trade union shall be considered a distinct union and may be separately registered as an industrial union under this Act." There may be conflict there, and the Council deem it advisable to draw the Committee's attention to it, so that there would be no conflict, and they have suggested that it read, " In addition to its registered office, an industrial union may also have a branch office in any locality in its own industrial district." The Council suggests this in order to cover any difficulty that might otherwise arise. 5. Mr. Laurenson.] May you not have a branch office in any locality in which there is no industrial union of a kindred nature ?—Yes. Of course, this is all the more serious from the Council's point, of view, inasmuch as the Bill proposes—and rightly, too, in the opinion of the Council— in section 11, provision "to prevent multiplicity of unions." It seems there is a conflict again here. 6. Mr. Collins.] Ido not think there is any conflict here so far as this is concerned. Clause 14 only enables a branch to be opened in another industrial district, does it not ?—Yes, but it says in clause 11, "in order to prevent the needless multiplication of industrial unions," &c. Supposing, for instance, a union in any part of the colony, under clause 14 as it stands at present, has a registered office in another part of the colony, it may have a branch office in a locality where there is already another industrial union. 7. The Chairman.] Is there any reason why they should not have a branch office ?—lt seems to conflict in this way, that there is a clause to prevent multiplication of unions on the one hand, and on the other hand there is a clause enabling them to multiply these unions. 8. No, only branch offices, is it not ? —The tendency in these days is to have an award, if it can be obtained, that will be uniform throughout the colony; consequently, say members in any part of the colony, belonging to the anion in their own district, should, by the variation of trade, travel to another part of the colony. In almost all trades of the present day members coming from, say, Auckland to Wellington, would pay their dues into the trade union where they propose to work. The object of a branch office would simply be to collect the contributions of these members coming from other districts. This is where a conflict might arise. The Council only desires that there shall be no conflict. The Legislature is endeavouring to prevent this needless multiplication of unions, and seeing that the tendency is to have a uniform working throughout the colony it is more desirable that members coming from another district should pay their dues into the unions in the district where they expect to get work. A man should get his clearance card from the union he is leaving and present it to the union where he is going to work. 9. Supposing there is no branch office, what is he going to do ? There should be a branch office, should there not, so that he can join it ?—Yes ; that would meet the objections of the Council, because there would be no conflict there. 10. But, I say, if there is no branch office of his own union ?—'What the Council desires is this : that, in any district where there is a branch of the union representing the union in this particular district, there should not be another union or branch office representing the same society. In clause 15 the words "all fees or dues" occur again. Clause 16 —"An industrial union may purchase or take on lease in the name of the union any house or building on any land not' exceeding one acre" ; the Council suggests that a union should not be restricted to one acre, because they might lease or purchase any parcel of land that might be more than an acre. They think that the words " not more than one acre " should be struck out. Under this section

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