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6. In order to prevent other employers being victimised by these men?— Yes; and- it will also be for the benefit of the men as well, for a man who is proved to be dishonest will be pilloried, as it were. 7. You want a kind of collective guarantee from the union as to the character and abilities of its members ?—Yes; and that they shall not be readmitted into the union again. 8. With regard to a man who came here, say, for the first time, you would not rake up his past against him, would you ?—As a matter of fact, we are not able to. A man should be in a position to produce his discharges from his former employers. 9. If he was not able to do so, would it prevent him from getting employment ?—Well, as a rule, they always do bring these discharges with them. 10. The Chairman.] Mr. Macfarlane and Mr. Campbell, do you indorse all that is said by Mr. Wardell ?—Yes, Mr. Chairman. Samuel Brown in attendance and examined. 1. The Chairman.] Mr. Brown, you represent the Wellington Industrial Association?— Yes, sir; lam representing four industrial associations. 2. You desire to give evidence on this Bill —Industrial, Conciliation, andjArbitration ?—Yes. 3. We will take your evidence—any suggestions you have to make in regard to the new matter contained in the Bill.-—-Very well, sir. 4. Mr. Arnold.] What four associations do you represent ?—The Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin associations. I might say that after carefully reading the Bill I think on the whole it is a very fair one, and proposes to remedy defects proved to be in existence ; and the suggestions such as I have to make, as far as I can see, go in the direction of endeavouring to make a little clearer what is really intended by the Bill. I have made a memorandnm of them on each page, and the first clause I wish to deal with is clause 2—the interpretation—which says " ' Employer' includes persons, firms, companies, and corporations." We desire the words " employing workers "to be inserted. It seems to me to require this in order to make it read clearly. Coming to page 3, the question of preference : I have explained to our association that this is simply putting in what the Court of Appeal decided, and. that it merely remains as before. Clause 5, Eegistration of industrial unions : I would suggest that that should be altered to, say, " two or more." In discussing it, it was mentioned that there were some buinesses in which there were not more than two, and the bacon-curers in Wellington were cited, there being only two. They would be debarred from registering as an industrial union although there may be forty or fifty men between them. I can instance a case in Auckland—the saddlers ; they could not register, as there were only four of them. This was in the case of the wholesale saddlers. Going on with this question of registration of industrial unions, it is suggested that it might be added, " All members whether employers or employes shall be bond fide tradesmen of their particular calling or trade." It has been pointed out to me throughout New Zealand that in many unions there are persons who do not belong to the trade that union represents, and these persons cause a great deal of trouble one way and another, and make themselves generally obnoxious. There is no difficulty whatever in dealing with bond fide tradesmen who are members. The next clause is No. 11, subsection (2), " Such society, if dissatisfied with the Eegistrar's refusal," &c. : we think that the word " Court " should be substituted for " Board." Clause 17, subsection (6), is the next one, " Proceedings for the recovery of penalty": it is suggested that the Eegistrar be required to give notice. Clause 21, " Industrial associations" : I am not quite clear upon this. It says, " not less than four industrial unions of either employers or workers may be registered as an industrial association." I think there are no such things in existence as industrial associations of employers under this Act; there are of workmen, in the shape of trades-unions. lam instructed to ask you if you value this name in any way, because the name "industrial association" confounds these with the former organizations in New Zealand, who are apart from this Act, and who have no vote. The members of the Auckland Industrial Association said they suffered very much because they could not get members to join the industrial association. It was suggested to change the name, but the Canterbury representative —the president of the industrial association there— protested very strongly ; he said, " We have had this name for twenty-one years, and we do not wish to change it now." Some two or three years ago we went into the question, and it was pointed out that the industrial association had a very wide scope indeed—different from any organization in existence. I should be glad if the Committee could see its way to recommend that the industrial associations in New Zealand be not confounded with what is intended here. The Chairman : I think it should be " industrial councils " ; we will make a note of it. Witness (continuing) : Clause 32, subsection (2), " Duties of clerk," " To convene the Board or Court for the purpose of dealing with any such dispute ": we think the word " Court " should be struck out, as the Clerk cannot convene the Court. The Judge does that, as he telegraphs from tim.e to time to the different bodies that he is going to sit, and, of course, it is impossible for the Clerk to do that. Clause 41, subsection (5), "Is absent during any period of thirty days from all meetings of the Board held during such period." 5. Mr. Leivis.] What does thirty days really mean? Does it mean thirty sitting days ?—I am rather puzzled about that. Thirty sitting days might mean going all over New Zealand. As a matter of fact, the Arbitration Court commenced sitting in Auckland, went to Westport, Dunedin, Christchureh, and Eangiora, and settled about thirty disputes, and was only sitting for the whole time about thirty days. Mr. Lewis : We will make that point clear, at all events. Witness (continuing): Clause 45, "Quorum of Board," which says, "The presence of the Chairman and of not less than one-half in number," &c. : I suggest the words be added, " one on each side," because it might happen that there were two on one side and none on the other. As a matter of fact, I think such a case occurred on the West Coast, and the Chairman unwisely went