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335. When was it that you called for the examination-papers ?—-1 should think it would be some time in November. I think it was just after the rising of the House. I cannot fix the date definitely. 336. Was not this document (the letter to the Collector of Customs, dated the 2nd July, 1897) on the file"?—lf there was a copy I did not know of it. My mind was on the question of the informal examination. I first looked at the writing and then at the figures. lam not in a position to say whether it was there or not. 337. Mr. Hanlon.] Are you perfectly clear that the Premier was out of the colony at the time that the suggestion was made about Jones going up for examination for a certificate of competency ? —He was supposed to be out of the colony. He was supposed to have gone in the steamer, and the steamer left the colony. I think there is no doubt about it. 338. And when the examination was held?— Yes. 339. On the Premier's return did you have any conversation with him with regard to Jones's examination for a certificate of competency ?—Not up to the time that the speech was made in the House by Mr. Hutcheson. 340. And did the telegram sent by the Premier to you from Auckland influence you in connection with Captain Jones's certificate ?—Not in the slightest degree. 341. Are you certain as to whether or not it was after Mr. Pirani's speech or after Mr. Hutcheson's speech that you saw Mr. Glasgow ? —Well, I think it was after Mr. Hutcheson's speech. Mr. Pirani's speech was on the 25th August, and Mr. Hutcheson's on the 26th. Mr. Glasgow was at the House on both occasions, both on the 25th and 26th, and my impression is that it was after Mr. John Hutcheson's speech that I was informed that Captain Allman was away. 342. Are you perfectly clear about that?—lt may have been after Mr. Pirani's speech; I am not certain. [Mr. Hanlon here handed in exhibits marked " T " (referring to Captain Jones's examination ten years previously), " D " (Captain Jones's examination papers) : " V," " W," " X," and " V"]. 343. Is there anything else, Mr. Hall-Jones, that you could throw any light upon?—No, I know of nothing further. 344. Dr. Giles.] Had you any conversation with Mr. Seddon prior to his going to England regarding Jones ?—No, Sir; Jones's name was not mentioned between Mr. Seddon and myself until after the speech in the House. 345. There was no communication?— There was no communication except on the service certificate. The matter was only brought up after the speech in the House. William Thompson Glasgow sworn and examined. 347. Mr. Hanlon.] You were duly appointed Secretary for Marine ?—Yes. 348. Do you know that Captains Allman and Edwin were Examiners duly appointed under the Shipping and Seamen's Act?— They were. 349. Were they the Examiners during 1897?— Yes. 350. And was it their duty to issue certificates of competency to persons who had passed a proper examination.—Yes. 251. Did you issue a certificate of competency to Captain James Jones ?—Yes. 352. Is that the certificate?— That is a copy of it. [Z.] 353. Before you issued the certificate, of which that is a copy, did you get a report from the Examiner? —1 did. Judge Ward: If this is a copy, how did it get into the Supreme Court ? Mr. Travers : It is a copy made for the Supreme Court. The original is in the Supreme Court. Mr. Hanlon : From whom did you get a report before issuing the certificate ?—The report was sent by Captains Allman and Edwin. 355. And forwarded to you by? —Captain Allman. 356. Will the report furnished by Captains Edwin and Allman to you be on the file ?—Yes. 357. What was done with the certificate when issued ? —lt would be forwarded to the Collector in order that Jones might obtain it. 358. Forwarded by the department to the Collector of Customs ?—Yes. 359. This is the report on which you issued the certificate ?—Yes. 360. Whose writing is it ?—Captain Allman's. 361. When this was sent to you by Captain Allman, were the examination papers sent too ? Yes ; to the department. 362. And did you see the examination papers ?—No, I did not see them. 363. Do you know that to be the signature of Captain James Jones?— Yes. 364. Do you recognise the writing or the figures in the body of the examination papers ?—No. 365. Do you recognise these figures in the questions ?—I recognise those as Captain Allman's figures. 366. The figures in the questions are Captain Allman's, and the figures in the answers you do not recognise ? —No. 367. Where are these examination forms kept—the skeleton forms?— They were kept in Captain Allman's office. Mr. Allport would tell you about that. lam not certain myself. 368. Now, Mr. Allport, to whom you refer, is the Chief Clerk in the Marine Department ?— 369. And had you confidence in Mr. Allport ?—Most entire confidence in him. 370. And had at that time, in 1897 ?—Yes. 371. How long have you known Jones?—l have not known him personally at all, only by sight.