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193. Judge Ward.] What file was it you saw ?— I saw the file for the application for examination. Mr. Travers : Mr. Allport states that those papers were kept separate and not attached to any file until proceedings were taken, and then they were attached to this file simply because they were exhibits in the case. 194. Are we to understand that it did not come back to your memory that Jones was the man with regard to whom there was a discussion as to his going up for his examination?—l think I have explained already that when this matter came before me the question of the mate's certificate did not occur to me. 195. Did you ascertain from others that he had gone up? —I gathered that he had gone up for examination. 196. Well, did it not strike you as curious that he had gone up ?—lt did not strike me at all. 197. When were you first aware that Oaptain Jones had got a certificate?—lmmediately after the speech in the House ; I never knew it before. 198. You remember having a conversation with Mr. Storrier in Timaru?—l know a man named Storrier in Timaru. 199. Did you have a conversation with him in Timaru shortly after you made your speech there ?—-I had a conversation with Storrier, I know, in Timaru. 200. Did he ask you, " But did you not know that Captain Jones had received a certificate " ? — I do not remember, I am sure, what he asked me. 201. Do you remember that question ? —I do not. 202. And do you remember replying, " Oh, yes, I knew he had a certificate, because he was an applicant for a Government position" ?—No, decidedly not. 203. Do you remember that Mr. Storrier has written to Mr. Hutcheson, stating specifically the question which he put to you and the answer you gave ? —There was a letter sent to him from Mr. Storrier referred to in the House the other night. That is all I know about it. 204. Is Mr. Storrier an imaginative individual ?—Exceedingly so. 205. He is a citizen of Timaru, is he ?—Yes. 206. Have you seen a telegram, which has been put in, referring to the Premier's statement to the Press Agency in Dunedin?—l saw a telegram that was published in the papers—yes. 207. You telegraphed to the Premier?— Yes. 208. This is it: "Jones was examined on 13th and 19th July, 1897. My note on envelope with no signature, date, or address, would have been made probably in May. Allport says it was handed to him by Allman on Bth July, 1897. You were not in the country at the time, and we at no time had any conversation about Jones, his certificate, or anything concerning him until some time after Hutcheson's speech. I never authorised a permit authorising his examination, and was not aware one was required, or had been given, until the eve of the Magisterial inquiry. In the nolle prosequi I told Mr. Gully what I wished, and he completely gave me away." Was this an answer to a telegram from the Premier ?—I think I received a telegram from the Premier asking me for the date. Mr. Travers: I am told that there was a copy of the letter, dated 25th July, 1897, to the Collector of Customs, and referred to previously, attached to the file ?—I was not aware of the existence of the copy. I did not notice the letter. Seeing the signature of Mr. Allport I may have passed it over without reading it. I was looking more particularly for the papers showing the fraud of a man who had some one guiding his hand in working out the problems. 209. Would you call that careful examination of the papers referring to such a matter as this ?—Yes. 210. And overlooking a letter indicating your own action ? —Yes. 211. You see your telegram is very specific, Mr. Hall-Jones: " You were not in the country at the time, and we at no time had any conversation about Jones, his certificate, or anything concerning him." —Quite so. 212. Is that absolutely correct?—l think so. 213. What does this mean, " And we at no time had any conversation about Jones, his certificate, or anything concerning him?"— That is so; that is, in connection with the examination. Examination governs the whole thing; the criticism was entirely in reference to the examination. 214. Does it not obviously mean that you intended people to believe that Mr. Seddon at no time had interested himself in Captain Jones's matters ?—lf you take the events of that time, it is only in connection with the examination. 215. The question is, Did it mean to convey that Mr. Seddon at no time interested himself in Captain Jones's matters? —No, Jones's examination. It is all controlled by the examination. You will see this by the telegram you have just read, and which appeared in the Otago Daily Times, of 25th February, 1899. 216. You see this telegram could only have referred to a time anterior to the Premier going Home. " And we at no time had any conversation about Jones, his certificate, or anything concerning him " ?—" Examination" governs the whole thing. You cannot get away from that point. The telegram explained itself. 217. You first of all state that the Premier was not in the country at the time of the examination?— Yes; that is right. 218. Then you say, " You were not in the country at the time, and we at no time." The two are connected?—lf it was the service certificate, he was in the country. 219. " And we at no time had any conversation about Jones, his certificate, or anything concerning him " ?—Yes; that is so. 220. Now, is that correct?— Yes; that is correct. I take it that the word '-examination" governs the whole thing, " Jones's examination " —that was the question before the House, and