H.—26

69

122. There is just one other matter with regard to Captain Allman. You state you gave this to him as a reminder ? —Yes. 123. I suppose the two matters telegraphed to you by the Premier were last requests, that this Jones affair should be considered?—No; the last request was "to be careful with the expenditure, and keep down the ' unemployed. ' " 124. I suppose you were desirous of complying with the Premier's request ?—I only did my duty in these matters. 125. It would have pleased you to have done his request in regard to Jones ?—lt would have pleased me to do my duty. 126. But it would have pleased you, while doing your duty, to have done the Premier's request? —He simply drew my attention to a matter that he thought should be settled. 127. But would it not have been a double pleasure to you?—lt is not a question of pleasure at all; it is a question of duty. It made no difference in the matter. 128. You had no desire to fall in with the wishes of the Premier?— Certainly not. 129. You allowed the matter to slip from your memory altogether, although you went to considerable trouble in asking Captain Allman to look it up ?—Yes. 130. After the conversation you had with Captain Allman it passed clean out of your memory ? —Yes. 131. And you never asked him for his report ? —No. 132. Did you interview the permanent head of the department about this conversation with Allman?—No. 133. Was he not responsible for any act of Captain Allman's ?—-I might have done it through Mr. Glasgow, or Captain Allman, as he was acting as Nautical Adviser. 134. Do not all such officers as Captain Allman is always report through the Under-Secretary ? —When a man occupies the position of Nautical Adviser it is different. The title indicates that he occupied an independent position. 135. Did not Captain Allman in other matters always report through the Secretary ?—I do not know. ] 36. Should not Captain Allman have reported through the head of the department ? —He might have spoken to him personally. 137. Can you tell us of any administrative act of Captain Allman's without reference to Mr. Glasgow ?—I cannot tell you from memory. Captain Allman is a man that took a very great interest in his work, and he was often suggesting improvements one way or the other. 138. Now, when you sent your messenger for Captain Allman after the speech made by Mr. John Hutcheson, what were the terms of the message ? —" Tell Allman I want to see him." 139. It was not in terms like this, " Tell Allman I wish to see him before he sees any one else " ?—No. Captain Allman had been away for some two or three days, and after Mr. John Hutcheson's speech I was anxious to see him immediately on his return, because I wanted to prove to the House and the people outside that the charges were unfounded. He, as Chief Examiner, could best give the information. 140. Was it in reference to Mr. Pirani's speech or Mr. John Hutcheson's speech that you sent for Captain Allman? —I think it was Mr. Hutcheson's. I did not pay much attention to Mr. Pirani's remarks, because I thought they were wide of the truth. 141. As a matter of fact, did not Captain Allman come back on the night of Mr. John Hutcheson's speech?—No, I think not—pretty sure not. I wanted to see Allman immediately on his return. 142. And the words were not " Before he sees any one else " ? —Certainly not. 143. Whom did he see first, you or the Premier?—l am not sure but that he saw us both together. He was either in the Secretaries' room or in the Premier's. 144. Was the Premier there when you saw him first ?—I believe the Premier was there. 145. I think you said that you took him into the Premier's room ?—No; that was in connection with the second interview. On the second interview I took him in to see the Premier. 146. As a matter of fact, was not Captain Allman sitting in the House of Eepresentatives when Mr. Hutcheson's speech was delivered?—No, he was not. 147. You say that without fear of contradiction?—l say that without fear of contradiction. 148. If Captain Allman says that he was standing within hearing at the door, as near in as he could get on account of the crush, would you be surprised ?—I should be very much surprised. As near as I can remember, Mr. Glasgow was in the House, and after talking over the matter with him I then inquired for Captain Allman, and was told he was away. He came down a night or two afterwards. 149. Well, if your memory is so defective as to swear that Captain Allman was not in the House and heard Mr. Hutcheson's speech, is it not likely that it would alter your opinion on other matters ?—I will back my memory. Judge Ward : Mr. Hall-Jones says that he did not see Captain Allman, Mr. Hislop. 150. Did you not see Captain Allman on the night of Mr. John Hutcheson's speech ?—No. 151. The occasion on which he spoke to you was immediately after the arrival of the train, a day or two after Mr. Hutcheson's speech?— Yes; I remember distinctly asking Mr. Glasgow where Captain Allman was, and he said that he was away, and would be back in a day or two. 152. Perhaps the Imprest Account will show when Captain Allman arrived?— Yes. 153. Will you have it looked up ?—Yes. 154. You will be astonished to know that Captain Allman was not only there when Mr. Hutcheson's speech was given, but that he was within the House, in the Under-Secretary's part of the House, until five o'clock that morning ?—I should be very much surprised.