63

H.—26

357. I suppose you agree with Mr. Seddon's estimate of Mr. Glasgow, that he is a high-minded, high-principled, man ?—I have had experience with Mr. Glasgow. He has been Secretary of Marine since I have been in charge of the department, and I have found Mr. Glasgow a rather cautious officer. 358. I asked whether you agreed with Mr. Seddon's estimate of Mr. Glasgow, that he was a high-minded, high-principled officer?—l say I believe he is a very careful officer. 359. Then I take it that you do not agree with Mr. Seddon's estimate ?—I express no opinion. 360. You express no opinion to the contrary ?—I express no opinion to the contrary. I do not wish it to be understood that I make any reflection upon what Mr. Glasgow said in another place. Ido not for a moment believe that Mr. Glasgow would state other than what he believed to be correct, but I do say that he is mistaken as to what he believes in this matter. 361. You believe that Mr. Glasgow is mistaken in saying that he took the envelope to you, but you do say you believe him to be a man not capable of swearing to what is not true ?—Yes. 362. You pointed out to the Commission to-day that there was an apparent lapse of memory on Mr. Glasgow's part at one time ? —Tbe minutes show that. 363. You rely upon these minutes as showing that Mr. Glasgow, when this matter was first mentioned in the Magistrate's Court in January last, did not then say he had shown you the memorandum ?—I think it would be admitted, seeing the way I drew attention to the envelope not having been shown to me. That was the first time the so-called permit was in question, and my complaint is that the envelope had not been shown to me. It is remarkable. 361. You rely upon the absence of any memorandum or any statement of Mr. Glasgow's that he had shown this document to you in January, 1899 ?—I say that is very remarkable. 365. Mr. Travers.] The telegram from Mr. Seddon says to you—and it is a telegram sent immediately before his departure —"I should be glad if you would have the question of issuing certificate to Captain Jones of ' Duco ' settled." Now, was it not in consequence of that telegram that you were desirous of getting that question settled in accordance with the Premier's wish?— I had no desire at all. It was simply a business to which my attention had been called—Captain Jones's application for a service certificate; and I inquired whether there had been any change in the position since I had decided it. 366. Did you inquire ?—Yes. 367. And you found that no service certificate could be issued to him, having regard to the records of the office ?—I was advised that there was no change in the circumstances. 368. But still the matter remained unsettled as to whether he could obtain another class of certificate? —If you mean to say " Was there any question raised as to any other class of certificate," I say, No. The only question before me was the service certificate. That had been decided by me some months previously, and I refused, after consultation with Captain Allman, to depart from my former decision. 369. And you communicated the receipt of this telegram to Captain Allman ?—Yes. 370. And you inquired whether any change had taken place in the circumstances respecting the service which would enable you to alter your mind?—As to whether there was anything fresh. 371. Then it was suggested to you by Captain Allman that there was another possible course? —Afterwards. 372. After you had expressed your definite and final opinion as regards the service certificate, Captain Allman suggested another course ?—At another interview. 373. How soon after the receipt of this telegram had you the first interview with Captain Allman?—l should say within three or four days. 374. Did you intimate to Captain Allman the receipt of the telegram ?—I told him I had received the telegram, handed the telegram to him, and asked him if there was anything fresh in the matter. 375. And he told you there were no new circumstances that would meet the case ? —He said there was nothing farther. Then so far as I was concerned the matter was dropped. 376. A few days after that you had some discussion as to the examination for a certificate of competency ?—Some three weeks afterwards I had a visit from Captain Jones. 377. And the result of that visit was that you sent for Captain Allman ?—No. There was an interview on the receipt of the telegram with Captain Allman, and my decision to do nothing with regard to the service certificate because it had been already decided. Then followed, about three weeks afterwards, an interview with Captain Jones, who came to ask me to reconsider my previous decision. I declined to do so. Then he asked me if I had consulted my Nautical Adviser. I told him " Yes," and he then said the Nautical Adviser had told him only a day or two before that he was entitled to the service certificate. I told Captain Jones to come along the following day and he should hear himself from Captain Allman what he advised me, and it was at this interview that the two were present when the certificate of competency was mentioned. 378. How long after the receipt of the telegram was it that that interview took place ?—With Captain Jones and Captain Allman, within a month. 379. So that the memo, on the envelope was written as the result of that interview with Captain Jones and Captain Allman ?—Yes. 380. I understand that Captain Jones left the room after you wrote that memorandum and gave it to Captain Allman ?—I wrote the memorandum as soon as the question of a permit was mentioned. 381. Of a permit for an examination ?—-A permit on account of Captain Jones not having the mate's certificate, which it was suggested the section of the regulations met; and, when it was mentioned, I then made this note on the envelope. 382. Did you make it in Captain Jones's presence ?—Yes.