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painful to me. However, I am aware that your time is fully occupied with Customs and other work, and I cannot absolve Mr. Allport from the largest measure of responsibility in the matter.— W. Hall-Jones. 27/1/99." 230. Then, did you direct Mr. Glasgow to take any action so far as Mr. Allport was concerned ?—Not in connection with Mr. Allport's action with regard to this matter; but I was very much pained and annoyed that an officer of my department, whose action I was to a large extent responsible for, had known, early in 1898, that a certificate had been obtained by fraud, and that two other captains had been allowed to be examined, or had somehow got through their examination to be licensed to act as adjusters of compasses. I was very much annoyed to think that an officer of my department, who had received this information, had not disclosed it either to Mr. Glasgow or to myself. The reason given was that it had been given to him confidentially. Well, as a public servant, I have no hesitation in saying that it was a mistake in the first place to take it as confidential, but, having the knowledge, it was his duty, without disclosing the name of his informant, to give the facts to the Secretary. I then, when suspending Captain Edwin from work as an Examiner, and Captain Allman from his work as Nautical Adviser, also told Mr. Glasgow to suspend Mr. Allport. Mr. Glasgow begged of me not to do so, saying that he could not do without him. I then let the matter remain for a time in deference to Mr. Glasgow's wishes. What I wish to do is to place the facts before the Commission. It is a fact that I told Mr. Glasgow to suspend Mr. Allport. It is a fact that Mr. Glasgow asked me not to do so, because he could not do without Mr. Allport, who has been identified with the department so long. He has been practically the head of the Marine Department for some time. Mr. Glasgow may shake his head, but that has been my impression. 231. Was that intimation given to Mr. Glasgow in writing?—No, not in writing. 232. Nor his reply ?—No. 233. That was by way of conversation ? —Yes. 234. As far as Captain Allman is concerned, there were certain charges sent to him ?—Yes. [Charges produced, identified, and marked " S."] 235. Do you know the date of the conversation with Mr. Glasgow in which you suggested that Mr. Allport should be suspended ?—lt would be, I think, some time in January—about the same time that we decided to suspend Captain Edwin and Captain Allman —about the middle of January. 236. Is there anything else in connection with the Jones case that you would like to give evi(_nce upon?— You have a declaration from Captain Jones—an affidavit [produced]—in which he says, under heading No. 2, " I was present at the office of the Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones early in the month of July, 1897, having gone to his office to obtain from him an order authorising me to be examined for a master's certificate." I say that is untrue. It is untrue that he came to my office in the month of July, and it is untrue that he came to me at any time for an order authorising him to be examined for a master's certificate. He further says: "3. I stated to Mr. Hall-Jones that I understood that I could not go up for a master's certificate until I got a mate's certificate, and that I had not a . mate's certificate ; and Mr. Hall-Jones replied, ' I will fix that all right, and you will come back again in a week's time and get your ticket.'" When I first saw this I wondered what it meant; I concluded it meant the certificate. " I said, ' For the practical part I can do anything, but I'll be hanged if I can do the writing.' I then said to Mr. Hall-Jones, 'It will be no use for me to go to Captain Allman and tell him I have permission to sit unless you give me an order telling Captain Allman that he was to allow me to sit for a master's certificate.' Mr. Hall-Jones then rang his bell, and the messenger came in. He told his messenger to go for Captain Allman, and tell him he wanted to see him. The messenger did so, and Captain Allman came upstairs in a few minutes. I waited in the room. When Captain Allman came in Mr. Hall-Jones told him that he was to allow me to go up for my certificate, and that he (Mr. Hall-Jones) was going to dispense with my having a mate's certificate. He said to Captain Allman that he would give him an order, and Captain Allman said it must be an order to the department. Mr. Hall-Jones then said he would give an order to the department. I saw nothing handed by Mr. Hall-Jones to Captain Allman, but Mr. Hall-Jones wrote something upon a piece of paper there. I left the room, leaving Captain Allman with Mr. Hall-Jones." That statement No. 3 is, nearly in every particular, incorrect. I saw Captain Jones on four occasions. The first occasion was when he came to me and complained that he could not get his service certificate from the department. The second occasion was when he came to get my decision or reply as to the result of that interview, when I told him he was not entitled to the certificate. The third interview was after the Premier's telegram, when he came to ask me to reco*nsider my previous decision, and I declined to do so. Then he told me that Captain Allman had told him only a few days before that he was entitled to his certificate. The fourth and last interview was when I brought him and Captain Allman face to face. It was then that the question of the examination and the matter of the permit cropped up. He came along on that occasion so that I might face him with Captain Allman, and he might hear what Captain Allman had told me about the certificate. There was no question of an order at all. The position was that Captain Allman was to look into the regulations, and that is borne out by Captain Allman's statement. You will see that he says he was to hunt up the regulations. I think it was in reference to the tug-service. It is here. Captain Allman says, after coming up to the point where the Hon. Mr. Ward ceased to be Minister of Marine, that he did not hear anything about the matter for some time until he " received a message from Mr. Hall-Jones that he desired to see me in his office. I went to his office, and he mentioned this matter again, and said he had received a communication from the Premier on Captain Jones's behalf. The communication was a telegram from the Premier to Mr. Hall-Jones, and the latter handed the telegram to me to read. It was dated Auckland, and, so far as I recollect, it said, ' See that Jones gets his certificate before B—H. 26,