10

H.—26

have anything to do with a man like that, and I declined to send for him I may say here that I think it was at the second interview with Mr. Hutcheson that I told him I had not the slightest knowledge of whom it could be or be connected with, and I told him the only application I knew of with regard to a certificate was the application by Captain Jones for a service certificate. , . .„ , ~ T . q 52 You told that to Mr. Hutcheson?—Yes, and he has since verified what 1 said. 53 Did Mr. Hutcheson make any reply to your statement that you knew no ■ one except Captain Jones who had made an application for a certificate ?—Yes ;he said he did not know who it could be. Following this up in respect to that interview, if you give me the fales,*there is a letter I sent to Mr. Hutcheson with respect to that interview, and his reply to it. lnere is a letter to me saying that a condition had been imposed before Captain Yon Schoen would be sent for In a memorandum that Mr. Allport had sent into the department, he had said that Captain Yon Schoen had told him that I was going to see him, and that a condition had been imposed respecting that interview that nothing should be disclosed about Captain Jones. I would like to have Mr. Allport's memorandum on that: — In m^mor^ta?SThta date asking me to state in> writing my recollection of confidential made to me by Captain Yon Schoen bearing on the examination of Captains Bendall and MoLellan in compassat this office, and in course of conversation he stated that the mode of conducting the examinations in Wellington was becoming worse, and that something ought to be done to place them on a better footing. On my asking in what way they were improperly carried out, he at first did not appear nXned to give any particulars, but afterwards said that he would show me that there were good grounds for bis statement if I would take the information confidentially. On my saying that I would accept the information as confidential, he went away and brought a book to me. He said that he had prepared certain papers for Captain Allman for the examination in compass deviation, a copy of which was in the book, and that he had good reason to believe that Captains Bendall and McLellan had been given these papers to copy at their examinations instead of doing the work themselves; that if the work in his book were compared with their papers the working of the questions would be found to be identical, including the copying of some errors which he pointed out in the book. He left the book with me, and after he had gone I compared the work with the papers, and it appeared to me to be identical. Captain Yon Schoen afterwards called for the book, and when I gave it to him he asked me if I was satisfied that he was correct in believing that the work had been copied from a paper of which his book was a oopy. As near as I can recollect, I replied that I was sorry to say that it was. He writes further :— Secretary, Marine Department. . '. . . ~ , IN response to your request for an explanation of my reasons for not informing you sooner of the information which Captain Yon Schoen Save me regarding the alleged improper passing of Captains Jones, Bendall, and MoLellan, I have to state that when Captain Yon Schoen, in the course of conversation in my office, alleged that the mode of conducting the examinations in Wellington was getting worse I asked him in what way, and after some hesitation, he said that he would show me that there were good grounds for his allegation if I would take the information confidentially and treat it as such. As it did not strike me at the time that the information which he intended to give was of the nature that it turned out to be, I said that I would treat what he said as confidential, and he then went avvavand brought some papers and a book. He then told me of the part he had taken in connection with the preparation of the papers for Jones, and that he had supplied Captain Allman with a oopy of the compass-deviation work which was in his book, and which he believed had been given to Captains Bendall and McLelian to copy from when they went up for examination. He left the papers and book with me so that I might compare them with the examination-papers, and satisfy myself whether such was the case or not. After he had left I compared the work and when he came for the documents he asked me whether he was not correct. I said that I was sorry to say that I believed he was I also said that as I had promised to treat the information as confidential I should feel m honourhound compelled to do so, but that I considered that he should agree to its being communicated to the Secretary of the department. This he would not agree to, giving as his main reason that he would never do anything that would iniure Jones who had been a pupil of bis. On different occasions, when I saw him afterward?, I endeavoured to get him either to communicate the information to the Government or to release me from the promise to keep it confidential, but without success. As soon as I read the statements made in the House by Mr. Hutcheson I knew that Yon Schoen must have supplied them to him, and I then saw him, and told him that as he had done so he must either communicate what he knew to the Government or I should consider myself released from the promiss which I had given him and inform the department of what I knew. . He promised to think over it, and the next day he told me that he had informed Mr. Hutcheson that he was willine to see the Premier and communicate the information to him, but he repeated that be would not furnish proof of Jones's case without a promise that his certificate should not be interfered with. Shortly afterwards he saw me, and told me that Mr. Hutcheson liad seen the Premier, who was willing to receive the information from him without touchina Jones whose name had not, however, he said, been mentioned to the Premier, but only his case referred to, and that he was expecting to be sent for any day. This is the history of the matter up to the date I told you of what I knew. On that morning I found, on going out of your office, where I had been with papers, that Captam Allman had asked Mr Grix to give him Jones's papers, and as I then thought that he probably wished to destroy them, and as I had not heard that the Premier had seen Yon Schoen, I considered that I was justified in telling you what I did. I admit that I made a mistake in giving Yon Schoen the promise that I did, and should not have done so had I known at the time the nature of the information he was about to communicate, but, having given it, I felt that I should do a discreditable thing if I broke it, and in consequence, much as it was against my own peace of mind, I felt bound to keep it until I got an opportunity of being released from it. At the same time, I did what I could to keep the evidence intact by initialling each examination-paper on the back, and looking them up to prevent their being abstracted or tampered with. L . , . L , ■ n I may add that if I had decided to tell you what I knew as soon as the information was given to me Captain Allman would, no doubt, have denied its truth, and Yon Schoen might also have denied that he had told me anything, as at that time he was very emphatic that he was not, at the time, prepared to go further, in which case, having no nl-hHT evidence than my own word, I might have been considered the fabricator of statements for the purpose of injuring Captain Allman. Geobge Allpobt. 21/12/98. 54. Did you make a minute on that?—l minuted, " This is pure fabrication on the part of Yon Schoen, or he has been misinformed." Mr. Jones's name was not mentioned, nor was anything whatever said about certificates or the interfering therewith. I obtained from Mr. Hutcheson the name of his informant, and said I would send for him. On consideration I altered my mind, and from what has taken place it is a good job I did, as I have asked Mr. Hutcheson to give me his recollection of what transpired at the interview." I will clear that up by Mr. Allport's further