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are so minute —the process is so simplified now. The wool comes down by rail; there is a duplicate waybill sent down to the agent by the producer or the agent in the local station—fifty bales, say. As soon as that comes down the agent simply sends notice to the shipping office that fifty bales have to go by a certain ship. The shipping clerk simply stamps the name of the ship on the paper and the whole thing is done. The agents do not have to look at a bale of wool. They sometimes send a clerk down to see the wool weighed, which is simply unnecessary, and we are charged 2d. per bale for that. 114. If the wool is weighed at the station is it charged subsequently in Wellington?—l understand there is 2d. a bale charged, which is a mere waste. 115. Does the agent in Wellington not see that the wool arrives in like order and condition as when trucked or shipped coastwise: is it not part of his duty ?—No, I think not, because the shipping people are responsible for that. The whole thing, in my mind, is on paper. There is no seeing the article at all. 116. Does the agent make out the bill of lading?—He makes it out, and, I should think, is amply remunerated by the charge made for the bill of lading. 117. Do you think whatever charge the agent makes should be at so much per bale, or should quantity dealt with be taken into consideration in fixing the charges per bale ?—Strictly and mathematically quantity would have an effect; but the thing is so small that I think an all-round charge of 6d. is enough. I might say, looking at it as a matter of fairness, I think the agents should get Is. per bale. I would rather pay Is. than 6d. 118. For the actual agency; but in reckoning anything arising subsequently, any collateral advantage that may arise from the agent handling the wool, can you tell the Committee at what rate you could get these services performed that you have enumerated by a responsible firm in Wellington?— Sixpence per bale. I think it quite possible to get it done for less than that. It has been offered, I know. 119. Are you prepared to bring evidence before the Committee to prove that what you say can be done—namely, obtaining the services of a responsible firm in Wellington in receiving and shipping wool for 6d. per bale ?—Yes. 120. Do you know of any other country in which 10 per cent, is charged on freight, which 10 per cent, you tell us is returned by the ship to the agent?—No, I never heard of such a thing. I should think it was peculiar to New Zealand. 121. Do you know what is done under similar conditions in Australia?— Only from hearsay. I could not give any evidence. 122. Are you aware that agents there are in the habit of charging a lump-sum, not by way of primage but in the ordinary way for the work of agency ? —Yes, I have heard that is so; but it is always very difficult to make anything of these statements unless one knows of the surroundings. 123. Have you ever heard anything about 5 per cent, being charged in Australia?— No. 124. Have you reckoned up how much 10-per-cent. primage comes to on each carcase 601b. weight on an ordinary freight of -Jd. per pound?— That would come to 3d. a carcase. 125. How much would 10 per cent, come to in the same freight ? —That would come to 4Jd. 126. How much did the owners of sheep in the North Island generally get for their best fat wethers last year, during the first three months immediately after shearing, in Wellington ? — The average price should be abSut Bs. 127. I wish to show the proportion which primage bore to the whole value of sheep?—lt would be something over 3d. per sheep. 128. What services are rendered by the agent in the case of frozen mutton shipped by the freezing company ?—I do not see how he manages to come in there at all. He might make out the bill of lading in some cases, but he does not see the sheep. I think it would tax his ingenuity to put that charge in. 129. Supposing a freezing company is shipping its own sheep, does not the agent perform some service there ?—lt is merely nominal. The shipping documents would go to the agents in that case. 130. Supposing the freezing company owns the frozen mutton shipped, is that 10 per cent, charged on freight ? —That 10 per cent, is charged. That would be charged in the same way. 131. Is any of that primage returned by the ship to the freezing company through whose works the meat goes ?—ln some cases it is, I think. 132. Are you not aware that in all cases it is?— Yes, I think there is 5 per cent, of it. 133. What does the freezing company do with that 5 per cent.—that is, primage ?—lf they get primage on their own meat, of course they keep the primage. 134. Supposing the meat is shipped through the freezing company on your own account, do you get any of that primage back ? —I think I should get it, but it is so long since I have been shipping on my own account. 135. Coming back to wool, do you know of any primage charged last year which is now held in suspense by the shipping companies because of their difficulty to prevent that primage from finding its way into the pockets of the shipper?—l have heard there are several funds, which are somewhat like Mahomet's coffin—they are suspended, and they do not know what to do with them. 136. Can you explain to the Committee what is the objection of the shipping companies to the agent passing on this 5- or 10-per-cent. primage, as the case may be, to the original shipper ? —You have to go back to explain the whole position. This originated in the way of paying ships' agents. Instead of establishing their own agents, they give the primage to agents who can control the wool. The first difficulty arose when the New Zealand Shipping Company came in. They found great difficulty in getting wool, because the Shaw-Saville people monopolized the wool of the large agents. The New Zealand Shipping Company had to establish their own offices to get in at all, and then they could not get in except through some of the agents, and they felt the difficulty very bitterly indeed. They not only had to pay primage to the agents out of freight, but had to keep up their own offices. They complained to the Government about it. It is a very serious handicap to them.