J §'

96

cheque of the 25th June, the proper amount that was then owing to him by the Council. That cheque, you will also see, is not paid till the 29th July. That cheque,'although given to Nathaniel Seddon on the 25th June, is not paid by the bank until the 29th July, showing the same thing occurred all the way through, there being no funds in the bank, I presume, when the cheque was given. Very well, the other cheques that Mr. Duthie has placed before us as being paid to Nathaniel Seddon are clearly paid through the Union Bank of Australia to Mr. Wylde's account, proving to our mind it was not paid to Nathaniel Seddon, because all the cheques paid to Nathaniel Seddon are clearly indorsed by him. This applies to all those cheques, gentlemen. Further, in these cheques there are five paid to Nathaniel Seddon and indorsed by him. We have therefore made up a new account from the 25th June till the 18th February, 1881, which goes to prove that to Mr. Nathaniel Seddon was due a certain amount of wages. And if we take all these payments by cheque indorsed by him as payments to him we find there is still lacking £45 —that is, we have no vouchers or no cheques to show that he was paid £45 due to him, bearing out the exact figures that we furnished in our report, that we had £45 there was no voucher for, and the cheques verified our statement ; and the £36 still further goes to prove that we are correct. 8. The Chairman.] Do you desire to say anything, Mr. Scott ? Mr Scott: Well, sir, we went through all the books and papers, digesting them as far as possible. First, we tried to construct an account; Mr. Nathaniel Seddon's debit and credit account. We found that quite impossible. "Nathaniel Seddon" appears at the beginning of the cashbook, but very soon vanishes altogether, and is represented by, and included in " wages," or "streets," or " sanitary," or some item of that kind. We then tried to verify Statement C, but we failed also in that. Then we tried to pull Schedule C to pieces, and succeeded, I may say. There is no difference of opinion between myself and Mr. Kember. We each prepared a report. They were substantially the same—a little out in expression here and there, but after one or two slight amendments we agreed. Those cheques which have now come out do not cast any different light upon the subject. 9. Hon. J. G. Ward.] From the statement of the accounts as they appeared before you, Mr. Kember, would it be possible for a payment of £219 to have been made to Mr. Nathaniel Seddon without you having detected it in going through the books ?—I do not think it possible that an amount of £219 could have possibly been paid to Mr. Nathaniel Seddon as by the books. 10. And does.your examination of the bank account disclose such a thing? — Decidedly not. 11. Does it disclose any open payments ?—None to Nathaniel Seddon. You must understand, Mr. Ward, there are cheques in the bank-book paid for wages and charged to streets. There is nothing at all to show those payments have gone to Nathaniel Seddon, or anybody else. Then, if Nathaniel Seddon got the whole amount, I do not think it would show very much an over-pay-ment. But it is useless for us to tick down an amount, because they are simply payments in the bank-book and cash-book—simply payments for streets, not paid to Nathaniel Seddon. You must have something more than that. 12. Have you noticed the sixteen cheques that came to hand?— Yes. 13. Some of these were indorsed by the initials "J. W. and J, Wylde" ?—Yes. 14. And some not at all ?—Yes. 15. The majority that have been indorsed by J. Wylde appear to have been paid into the Union Bank of Australia ?—Yes. 16. And those that have been received by Nathaniel Seddon as wages have been indorsed by Nathaniel Seddon only ?—Yes. They have gone into the Bank of New Zealand. Those indorsed by Nathaniel Seddon have, seemingly, been paid over the counter. 17. I. suppose you could not state in your examination whether the fact of the cheques to Wylde going into the Union Bank of Australia—those cheques endorsed by J. W. Wylde or J. Wylde —whether they, being paid into the Union Bank of Australia, would indicate that they had gone to Nathaniel Seddon? —We take it as not being paid to Nathaniel Seddon. It has gone through somebody else's account. We do not say it has been paid to Wylde. We are not asked to say who these are paid to. 18. Then, this further reference by the Committee to you two gentlemen. Do you adhere to the report that you first sent in?— Entirely. 19. Have further facts been brought under your notice in any way affecting your first report ?— It strengthens our first report; it goes to prove our contention. 20. Mr. Duthie.] I would like to direct your attention, Mr. Kember, to the clause in the report of the Government Auditors, and ask you to take it into consideration —viz. : " All the back documents and vouchers were in a very mixed and disordered state; but we commenced our operations by checking all payments from the cash-book with the corresponding vouchers, and after considerable trouble succeeded in obtaining vouchers for nearly all the entries in the cash-book, except those enumerated on List A " [ExhibitE] ? —Well, look here, they say: "We have checked all payments from the cash-book with the corresponding vouchers." Now, then, allow me to call your attention to Schedule C. : "On the sth February, 1880, on 25th March, credit £12; on 28th February, credit £24; on sth March, credit £12 ; on 12th February, credit £36." 21. There is one upon the 11th March, £12?— Yes, very well, £12. Now you will see that these five vouchers come to £96. 22. I will draw your attention to this clause at the word "vouchers." It goes on to say: " That they succeeded in obtaining vouchers for nearly all the entries in the cash-book except those enumerated on List A." In consideration of that clause, and, further, where they say, "except paid according to cash-books and ledgers," and so on. Does not that imply that they had payments for all these vouchers?— Their statement was inconsistent with fact. It implies they had vouchers, and had not vouchers for some things. 23. Further, they say : That they had " vouchers for nearly all entries in the cash-book," and