1.—9

66

187. Mr. Duthie.] You have been examined on a £12 reputed payment: there is a voucher including £19 ss. ?—Yes. ■188. Included in the £19 ss. is a reputed payment for Nathaniel Seddon—a suggested payment ? —Yes. 189. Here is the voucher. Are you aware that that item does not appear in Schedule C—that the auditors did not put that forward as one of the payments ?—I cannot say anything about that at this period ;it is impossible. I have really never said a word about these things to my family or any one else for the last sixteen years. 190. You have been examined upon a suggested payment under that blank voucher?— Yes. 191. A suggested payment of £12 included in that blank voucher?— Yes. 192. And you have given an explanation that that was no payment at all ?—Yes. 193. I refer you to Schedule Cof the auditors' report: is there any payment set forth there as having taken place on that date —the 21st April? Is there any payment asserted to have been made at that date?—l can find no such entry. There is one of the 22nd April. 194. The date of your voucher is the 21st April, 1881 ?—There is no other that I can see. 195. There is no payment of that sort asserted by the auditors ?—I do not see it here. 196. Then there is no discrepancy there made good?—I cannot answer that. 197. You are comparing a payment you have been examined about ?—I say that is not a voucher. 198. There is. no statement by the auditors that any payment took place on that date ? —I do not see it. 199. Therefore, all that evidence has no value—no application ?—That is not a deduction I have to make. 200. Look on Schedule C, you will see the second item, April Ist, 1880, £24 ? —Yes. 201. Now, from the Ist April to the 22nd there would be no four weeks' wages, would there ?— No. 202. There is a discrepancy that wants some explanation ?—lt looks like it. 203. If a payment was made on the Ist April for eight weeks, and then on the 22nd there is a payment for four weeks, there would be a week's over-payment, or a discrepancy ?—I should say so. 204. Or that the payment on the Ist April was not up to date ?—Yes. 205. These two payments of £24 and £12 would make £36?— Yes. 206. On the 12th February there is a payment of £36 ?—Yes, twelve weeks. 207. Are you aware that a bill was given to Nathaniel Seddon for £36 ?—I cannot remember. It would be impossible for me to remember these details of amounts and dates at this period. 208. You see all this number of weeks put in this schedule. Was it possible for your books or vouchers to show so many weeks ?—They could not; it is impossible they could show that amount. There is some jugglery about the matter which lam perfectly helpless to understand. 209. If, therefore, there are no vouchers to be found for all this number of weeks, it does not follow that they were removed ? You say they were never in existence ?—I say these were not vouchers. 210. There never were vouchers? —I can say that these are not vouchers, that is all. 211. From December, 1879, to the sth November, 1880, there are a number of weeks shown greatly in excess of the actual time?— They might be made out for cash payment and then be made out afresh and paid by bill. 212. Then, if an inference is sought to be created that the vouchers at some time existed, seeing this number of weeks and all these payments, you say that inference is wrong? —I think so. 213. And it would be incorrect to say that because you cannot find the vouchers now to correspond that they are missing ? —lf they were existing then some one must have had them. 214. Bight Hon. B. J. Seddon.] You say you never shifted an account or document out of the office ?—No ; I did not. 215. Did you ever pay wages out of the ordinary revenues of the borough during the whole time you were Town Clerk ?—No ; I might have used private money. 216. Then, if it is sought to be suggested that payment would be made by cash that never went into the bank, it would be wrong?— The thing is absurd. 217. You paid all moneys into the bank?— Yes. 218. Except contractors' deposits—you did not pay those into the bank ?—I was told not to. 219. These were the only moneys you kept ?—Those were the only moneys you kept ?—Those were the only moneys to my recollection. 220. And you never paid cash for salaries that came into your hands as borough revenue ?— No. 221. Then, if there are borough cheques paid into your private account, it has been where there was more than one person on the voucher, or where you have paid the money yourself and taken their cheques in payment ?—Yes ; that was not an unusual thing at all. A man frequently came to me and wanted to know when his money would be available, and I paid the money myself frequently. 222. You say that your estate was your own, and you were not in financial difficulties ?—Yes. If they could have shown that I had made a mistake in my bookkeeping I was fully prepared to realise on my property and pay them. In fact, I am prepared to do it to-day. Every man is liable to make a mistake. The Government valuation on my property is £907 now, and it is less than it was then, because I have sold off little bits. But it was there all the time for them to come upon it if they wished. 223. Mr. Duthie.] You are aware that according to the auditors' report, there are considerable payments for which there are said to be no vouchers?—l take what you say —I do not know it.