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119. You think that if growers took proper precautions they could eradicate the codlin-moth ? —I am decidedly of that opinion. 120. Is there much of it in the Wellington province ? —Very little. We have a little of it, unfortunately. 121. Mr. Wason.] With regard to those Tasmanian apples which were sold at 9s. a case, do you speak from your own knowledge when you say that they were second-class ?—Well, I have bought them and tasted them, and besides that I am creditably informed that it is only their surplus that they send from Tasmania to the other colonies. 122. Is it necessary that their surplus should be second-class apples? —Presumably they are. They are not of the same quality as those which they exhibited at the Brisbane Exhibition. 123. Is not that an extreme price for apples ?—I do not think it is an extreme price for 40 lb. cases at the present time. 124. Do not the qualities of apples vary very much ?—Yes. The apples which come in now are principally of the dessert kind, and keep better. They are worth fully 9s. a case. 125. You told us that local apples were sold at ss. 6d. a case; is it not probable that it may be desirable that a certain class of apples should be grown at a lower rate ? All apples are not of the same value, and some may be more easily grown than others ? —Quite so. 126. Some of the more valuable kinds are imported, including Newton pippins and dessert apples of the best kind; you would not get the same price for apples grown for jam-making as you would for those ? —No. I am afraid I shall have to give some explanation of the reason why I brought this matter of the sale by auction forward. Fruit-growing may be divided under three heads—domestic, commercial, and economic. Domestic fruit-growing will include pears like the Doyeune dv Gorniel, and apples of the Eibston pippin variety. They are fruit of the highest class—what you might call exhibition fruit; but you cannot grow them for commercial purposes, and they are decidedly not of the economic class. Then, with regard to the commercial, it is a class of which we may take as representative the Marie Louise pear, or the Irish peach apple. The Marie Louise is in some cases domestic; it is the highest class pear, but it is not suitable for export —it is too soft, and you cannot carry it like the Beune Clairgeau. The third-class includes fruit of the Williams, Bon Chretien, the Bartlet of the Americans, and the Jonathan apple stamp. They are economic in this respect : that when grown they are fit for the local market, or you can export them all over the world green, or by drying or canning. We cannot export fruit, much less meet outside opposition in our own markets, unless we get some encouragement; but if that were given to us we should be able to overtake the import trade from other countries in this respect. We paid away £58,000 in solid gold last year for importing fruits which we could have very well grown ourselves if we had had any encouragement. We want to be able to grow an apple like the Stunner pippin or the Jonathan, which we are even now exporting to Brazil in insignificant quantities. But we want some protection and encouragement to enable us to do it with any hope of profit; therefore I maintain, viewing this measure from its broadest aspect, that if it were passed it would materially assist to establish the fruit industry and do away with this annual export of gold to the value of £58,000 to pay for the import of fruit which we could very well grow ourselves —money which would be much better expended in the colony itself in developing its industries. It really means that if we grew fruit to this amount, and had a similar amount to export, we should have something like £120,000 a year which could be distributed over other industries, such as those of sheep, cattle, grain, &c, greatly encouraging their further development. When we obtain an Act upon the lines of this Bill it will mark the year one of our fruit industry. 127. What description of apples were those from Tasmania sold at auction here?—l could not say ; I suppose they were scarlet pearmains and nonpareils. 128. Would not the price given be considered an extreme price in Tasmania for such apples ?— It would be a very big price. 129. I do not speak with any knowledge myself, but I think about ss. a case is the ordinary price given there?— Yes; 4s. or ss. a case is the common price. 130. What I want to get at is this : What would you consider a fair difference in price between the different grades of apples that men can grow here ? For the highest grade of apple you have got as much as 13s. a case ; might it not be possible that it would be desirable to grow a lower grade of apple at a lower price?—l find in the highest-grade fruit that the Stunner pippin, at this time of year, is a very good cooking apple. There is none that surpasses it. I think that its second grade should fetch about 10s. a case, at any rate. Then, for its third grade, which can be used for jammaking, pies, and that sort of thing—it is only slightly marked and not diseased —you might expect Bs. a case for 48 lb. cases. Therefore, growing a lower-grade class of apple for this season would not be profitable. 131. Hon. the Chairman.'] What was the date of the auction sale from which you took the prices given for Tasmanian and for local fruit ?—23rd July, 1898. 132. What proportion of loss have you yourself had from bitter pit and so on ? —My loss has not been more than about 5 per cent. 133. Mr. Buchanan.'] Taking the highest grade of apples from the economic point of view shipped to England, what is the difference in the London price for that grade of fruit coming from New Zealand and that from Tasmania? —I am not in a position to answer that question, for I have not any return available. The Department of Agriculture have shipped a lot of apples there, but I do not know whether they have published returns as yet. 134. Mr. Flatman.] What is the difference in the cost of production between the domestic and the economic classes of apples ?—Domestic cultivation simply means this : that a man can spend any amount of money he likes in the production of that class of fruit, irrespective of probable cash return. 135. I mean, in an ordinary way, is there any difference in the cost of producing a good apple