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18

£ s. d. 1. Payments to Major Kemp as per receipts ... ... ... ... ... 500 0 0 2. Payments made and agreed to be made to solicitors and others on behalf of Major Kemp and by his authority ... ... ... ... ... ... 1,208 0 0 8. Sir W. Buller's fees and costs (subject to taxation by the Registrar of the Supreme Court) for services chiefly, but not exclusively connected with Horowhenua— February to August, 1897 : — (I.) Fees as counsel in the Native Appellate Court (fee on general brief £105, with £10 10s. per diem) ; engaged in five oases relating to various subdivisions of the Horowhenua Block, £ d. s. extending over a period of five months ... ... ... 1,596 0 0 (2.) Solicitors' costs and disbursements for a period of nearly two years, during which the litigation was unceasing ... ... 912 15 0 2,509 5 0 £4,217 5 0 Mr. Baldwin: I was asked to furnish the Committee with the amount of disbursements in the bill of costs rendered by Messrs. Stafford, Treadwell, and Field to the Public Trustee. I have procured it from Mr. Stafford's accountant. The total amount as taxed is £1,055 12s. 9d., of which £791 6s. 7d. is disbursements, including £409 lis. as fees for Mr. Stafford on attendance at Levin, leaving £381 15s. 9d. for disbursements, counsel's fees, and other matters. The balance is £263 6s. 2d. Mr. Bell: I object to those fees being taken as disbursements. The Chairman (to Mr. Baldwin).] You might explain what the amount is out of pocket?— They are actually disbursements out of pocket. There is £400, not in connection with this case, but for attendance at Levin. The £381 15s. 9d. would include £150 for Mr. Cooper, £100 to myself, and the balance would be actual cash payments for fees, and matters of that sort. I will put the whole bill in. The total, £791 6s. 9d., would include Mr. Stafford's brief-fee (£73 10s.), and Mr. Baldwin's brief-fee (£36 155.) Mr. Bell: If these fees are to be taken as disbursements, then Sir Walter Buller's account has been made up under a misapprehension of what was desired. If Mr. Baldwin's statement is to be taken on your notes, Sir, I hope you will see that Sir Walter Buller's are taken in the same form. Ido not care how it is taken so long as it is the same in one as in the other. For the Government solicitors on the one hand to pretend that £260 covers their costs, and that Sir Walter Buller's are £4,000, is simply a mistake, of course. As long as you put the disbursements in the same form in both accounts I have nothing to complain of, but I certainly complain of the statement as it is put in. The Chairman (to Mr. Bell).] Do you wish to address the Committee on the whole case?— We have done so. The Is there anything else you want to say, Mr. Baldwin ?—No. I am putting in the account with the various items marked in red ink. Mr. Bell seemed to think that I wish in some way or other, undesignedly or designedly, to mislead the Committee. The Committee can see by the red-ink marks what the items are, and I said the amount would include the fees to counsel. The Chairman : Mr. Bell wants his figures to be in the same position. His disbursements can appear to the Committee in the same form as yours appear. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones : It is open to Mr. Bell to do that. Mr. Bell: You, Sir, directed us to put the accounts in in the form we have. We have followed the specific direction of the Committee, and I ask that Mr. Baldwin's account on the other side should follow the same specific direction. I wish also to say to the Committee that on the last meeting the Committee said Sir Walter Buller ought to pay the amount of his costs before the Committee proceeded further. I have to say that has been done. Mr. Baldwin : I am quite satisfied if the Committee think that Mr. Bell should amend that statement in any way he likes. Mr. Bell: Mr. Baldwin ought not to be allowed to say that the costs on his side are £200 odd, and the disbursements so much, when Mr. Stafford and himself have received the money. The Chairman (to Mr. Baldwin).] Could you not put it in another form, and say that of the disbursements Mr. Stafford received so much, you received so much, and Mr. Cooper received so much? Mr. Bell: I never heard of fees being called disbursements, where the solicitor receives the fees. Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones : Have we had Sir Walter Buller's account, in accordance with the request of the Committee, giving the details the same as in other accounts? The resolution was, " That the following statements of accounts as asked for by the solicitor for the Crown be prepared by Sir W. L. Buller and furnished to the Committee—statement by Sir W. L. Buller showing (1.) Amount of payments by him to Major Kemp from the 15th May, 1896, to the 9tb February, 1898. (2.) Amount of payments by him to solicitors and others on behalf of Major Kemp from the 15th May, 1896, to the 9th February, 1898. (3.) Amount of fees, costs, and charges of Sir W. L. Buller against Major Kemp from the 15th May, 1896, to the 9th February, 1898." Here we have what purports to be a statement as required, giving only a summary of his claims. There is no mention in the resolution of a summary at all. The Chairman : Has not Mr. Bell furnished the Committee with the statement we asked for ? Hon. Mr. Hall-Jones : I think not. This is only a summary, and I take it that what is meant here is a statement of account. There is no mention of a summary in the minutes of the Committee. The Chairman (reading resolution) : " (1.) Amount of payments by him to Major Kemp," £500 —that is there. " (2.) Amount of payments by him to solicitors and others " —well, the amount