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854. The Chairman.] What is the rate of pay in each class of the Force in 1890 and in 1897 ? There has been no alteration since 1890, and the grades at present are : First-class Inspectors, £400 each, and £50 a year house-allowance ; third-class Inspectors, £300, and also £50 house-allowance ; sergeants-major, 10s. 6d. per day; first-class sergeants, 9s. 6d.; second-class sergeants, 95.; thirdclass sergeants, Bs. 6d.; first-class constables, Bs.; second-class constables, 7s. 6d.; third-class constables, 7s. Then, all constables enrolled after the Ist April, 1895, get £120 a year; first-class detectives, 13s. 6d.; second-class detectives, 12s. ; third-class detectives, 10s. 6d. ; and fourth-class detectives, 9s. 6d. Then, we have some Native constables and district constables on different salaries varying from £30 to £60 per year, and we have four matrons at £100 a year. All men who entered the service before the 10th February, 1887, get 6d. per day long-service pay after five years' service, and Is. per day after ten years' service. 855. You referred to Native and district constables : what is their position in the Force ?—Thev have the same powers as ordinary members. 856. Are they under the same discipline and control ?—No, they are not supposed to give their entire time to the Force. There are some places where there is not sufficient work for an ordinary constable, and we get a local man-and offer him perhaps £30 or £40 a year, as the case may be, and if he is approved he is sworn in and has all the powers of a constable. But he has no lockup, and no quarters. 857. Do they wear uniforms?— No. 858. Do they make the usual returns that the other officers make ?—No; but they report any crime that occurs in the district. I will tell you the sort of places they are at, viz.: Howick, Mangawai, Ohaeawai, Great Barrier, Panmure, Port Albert, Katikati, Waiuku, Tokaanu, : Kawhia, Moawhango, Makuri, Cullensville, Bichmond, Motueka, Cheviot, Half-moon Bay, Stewart Island, and so on. Then we have Native constables. Their pay differs from £20 to, I think we had one as high as £40. Wherever we have a Native constable we have a European constable there as well, and the Native constable is subordinate to him. 859. Are these Natives regular members of the Force ?—They are in the same position as district constables. A great many of them were handed over by the Native Department to the police. They were men who had done service in the war, I think. There are eight of them altogether. They are principally stationed where there are Native settlements. 860. Do they wear uniforms ?—Some of them do. 861. Colonel Pitt.] They have all the powers of constables ?—Yes, but always under a European officer. 862. The Chairman.} And they do not act independently?— No. 863. Were the men who were enrolled at the reduced rate in 1895, or subsequently, given to understand they would have an increase of pay for lengthened service ?—No ; they were merely told they would be enrolled on a pay of £120 a year. 864. Is there any reason why the first- and second-class constables should be limited, in number?.—There is no reason that I know of, except a financial reason. 865. At present what entitles their promotion from third- to second-class ?—There is nothing. 866. Does that apply also from second- to first-class?— Yes. 867. Can you tell us how many men have been recruited from the general population since you ceased to recruit from the Permanent Militia exclusively ?—I cannot say at present. In regard to enrolments, the Commissioners will notice that the Act says nothing about a man being enrolled from the Permanent Militia. It is only in the regulations. Now, what I wanted to say was this : that if a Minister had wanted to do any underhand thing as regards these appointments, all he had to do was to take a man into the Permanent Militia to-day and transfer him to the police to-morrow ; or he had only to produce a regulation at the next meeting of the Executive Council, and the Governor would have signed it. What I wanted to show is that there is nothing illegal, because there is nothing to prevent it in the Act. 868. My object in asking that question was to know whether the introduction of these men has had any effect upon the Force, and if so, what ? Has the number enrolled from the general public been sufficient to affect the Force in the sense of demilitarising it in any way ?—I am not aware of this military element in the For.cc at all. I may say I have asked the Inspectors on all my visits since outsiders have come in, and they have universally, I think, agreed that we were getting more efficient men, or men who promised to be more efficient, as policemen from among outsiders than we had previously got from the Artillery. 869. You say there is nothing entitles a man to promotion : Do you think a system giving the right to promotion or increase of pay after a fixed term of service, say, of five or seven years, with a clean defaulter's sheet, and where there are trivial offences giving the Commissioner power to set the man back for a time or strike out the offence if he considered circumstances justified, would be beneficial to the Force?— Yes. I entirely believe in the system of increase for years of service, and I should like to see the different classes abolished. 870. In your report of 1891 you say you have put a stop to the system, which you say you found existing, of Inspectors making transfers in their districts: Do you think it objectionable that they should have that power?—lt certainly was. 871. Transfers, you say, are attended with the very greatest trouble to Ministers: Was not the effect of this alteration to bring the matter of transfers under immediate Ministerial control ? No. I think that the regulation was made before we had telegraph communication. Now, it is only a matter of a few hours' delay. The Inspector telegraphs, and says, " I want to remove So-and-so " ; and if he gives a reason it is probably done. In these days of telegraphs Ido not see why you should give the Inspectors that power. 872. You tell us that every recruit has now to insure for £200 : Is that life insurance ?—lt is payable at sixty, or at death if sooner.