I.—9a.

22

Tuesday, 14th December, 1897. Allan Maguire, Contractor, Wellington, was next examined. 1. The Chairman.] You know the petitioner ?—Yes. 2. Have you in any way been connected with the Makarau Contract ? —ln no way, sir. 3. Mr. McLean (petitioner).] You, Mr. Maguire, have done some tunnel-work in your time as a contractor?— Yes. 4. And you have done some work in soft ground as well ?—Yes. 5. In tunnelling through soft ground, or (what is termed heavy ground, is not it the usual thing to leave the ends of the sills in—that is, leave the sills in the brickwork, and build them round until that particular length is bricked up ? —Yes ; I have done so myself. 6. In the tunnel that you have built you have left the ends of the sills in the brickwork. That is the usual thing?— Yes; I was permitted to do so. 7. Mr. McLean then read the witness the whole of section 13 of the specification with the exception of the last three paragraphs, and asked, What kind of ground would, you consider that to refer to, if you had no other indication as to the nature of the country ?—I should consider it to be firm ground. 8. You would never anticipate that a tunnel such as the nature of this is required an invert? —No, I should not. 9. And in this particular tunnel the department do not admit of having given any borings. But, however, there was a boring in one place, and that, I think, was shown to be sandrock ; but it was not on the line of the tunnel, though they give a description of the tunnel in the specification. They also give a longitudinal section of the tunnel, such as this [pointing to the plan on the wall], showing 14 in. linings and footings, and a cross-sectional plan of it. This is the only description here. They have also a section on the drawings showing a much larger section of tunnel in soft ground than that—for instance, 22 in. brick linings, the radiuses much shorter, and the circle being very different from what this is on the plan. They show that section, and they say below it, "To be used when directed in soft ground." I want you to give the Committee an opinion as to what conclusion you would come to in connection with these plans and drawings. Would you base your estimate on it being a tunnel in soft ground, or a tunnel as described here ? —I should certainly consider it to be in solid ground. 10. You would consider the fact of the department not having shown borings on the line of tunnel indicated that they were satisfied that the tunnel was through firm ground?— That is the inference, at all events. 11. You would really come to the conclusion that if the department for a moment thought it would be a tunnel such as it has actually turned out to be they would have turned the line, and given the contractors better information to tender on ? —I do not know that they undertake to do that usually; in my own experience, they do not. In the last tunnel there were no borings at all, but at Eeefton, where they had difficulties similar to that, they altered the levels. 12. It was mostly shingle at Reef ton, was it not? —Yes; it showed splendid country on both sides; but, of course, there were no borings in that tunnel at all. 13. But if you were tendering for this contract, and the department showed no borings—we do not consider that there were any borings on the line of tunnel—and they called for tenders, just as in the case here, what conclusion would you come to, and how would you base your estimate ?— I should certainly estimate that the ground was firm. That is the conclusion I should come to if I was tendering for it. 14. Now, here is a point that I would like to have your opinion about. [Beading paragraph 6 in clause Bof the specification.] " All cuttings shall have a width of base at formation level, as shown on the drawings, according to the material through which they are made. Slopes shall be Jtol in solid rock, 1-J- to lin sand, and 1 to 1 in all other material; but, should the Resident Engineer require any other slopes, tho difference in cost, estimated at schedule rates, shall be added to or deducted from the contract sum. The Resident Engineer shall be the sole judge as to what class the material in the cuttings belongs. Any alteration in the slopes of cuttings will be ordered in writing. No slips will be paid for under this clause except those that are, in the opinion of the Resident Engineer, due to steepness of slope, and for which an order has been given beforehand." What is your opinion of that clause ?—Well, I certainly should expect to be paid, but, as you know, the Engineers have great power over the conditions. I should expect to be paid, but I might have an uphill job to get the money. 15. The same as we have. You have done work for the Midland Railway :in your connection with that company, did they pay for slips? —I had only one slip, and the superintendent engineer did not take any power over it at all. After it was made good I was paid for it a price arranged. 16. And it was the same class as this? —Yes; the conditions were almost identical. 17. With regard.;to Mr. Witheridge, the inspector that we have had over us in this job : It has been stated in the report by the Engineer-in-Chief that he has given general satisfaction, and contractors have not complained of him. Perhaps that is so. You had to do with Mr. Witheridge as an inspector on some works you had: where was it ? —Newmarket Junction—a most difficult undertaking. 18. Did you find Mr. Witheridge very troublesome there ?—He was extremely strict; but we got on all right. 19. Did you find him interfering with the men during the carrying-on of the works ?—That is a general practice of inspectors all round: they all interfere with the men. Ido not think he is alone in that matter. 20. But, still, you found him interfering with the men ?—Yes ; but, of course, it is a long time ago, and Mr. Witheridge and I are on most friendlyjterms.