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39. Did you understand, when you signed that document, that you agreed to pay Mr. Pharazyn 8 per cent, for that money ?—Yes; the interpreter explained that to me, and I said that was all right. 40. Was it made a condition of your obtaining the money for which you gave the mortgage that you should sign the lease in addition ?—No; I cannot say that. I did not sign the mortgage, and there was no need to sign the lease. 41. Do you consider the rent you receive under this lease a fair one? —I must say to this Committee I think the money is very little. There are 500 acres which belonged to my father, and for that I only get £6 a year. 42. Hon. H. K. Taiaroa.] Is that £6 the rent for your father's interest, or is anything being deducted in the way of interest ?—Before I repaid the £120 we did not draw any rent; but after I repaid that money then I drew £6 rent. That is all I can explain as to that. 43. Mr. Monk.] Before you were declared heir to your father, whatever moneys you received you simply signed a receipt for, and no other document ?—Yes ; it was a receipt stamped as a receipt that 1 had received so much money. 44. There was no mention of any other form of agreement that might ultimately be made with you?—lt was explained that if this money was not paid in the time there would be another document, and the document I have put in was the one which followed. 45. It did not follow until you were in the title ?—No, it was before that. These documents are dated 1893, and my father died in 1894, and it was not until 1895 that I became an owner. 46. You are sure that your father died in 1894?— Yes. These papers came to us in 1893, and that is the last paper I had anything to do with, and my father died in 1894. 47. Did the interpreter over say to you that you should induce your father, or suggest to him, that he should sign the mortgage ?—No, he did not say anything about it. 48. Did he ever mention that the two amounts, the £51 and the £67, should go together and be put in the mortgage made by your father ? —No, he did not say that; but when we took the money it was said that if we could pay it within the three years that would be all right, and that the rent would go towards paying off what we owed. Then, subsequently, it was suggested that if we could not repay this money it should be placed under a mortgage. But the mortgage document never came to my father or myself. That document which I have put in is the only one that was ever presented to us, and the receipt for the money. Those are the only two papers. 49. That is to say, you borrowed money, and you were given to understand that if you did not pay in three years you would be called upon to give a mortgage ?—We were to pay this money within three years, and if we could not we were to have an extension of time. 50. Was there an understanding that there would be a mortgage deed placed before you then ? —It was arranged that if we could not repay the money in the time, a mortgage could be arranged fixing the time in which we should repay it. 51. I gather from you that you understood that if the money was not repaid in three years there would be an extension of time in which it could be paid, but there would be security taken in the form of a mortgage ?—When we received the money we understood we were to have three years in which to repay it, but, failing that, we were to have an extension of time with a mortgage. 52. Then, you paid at the end of three years, avoiding the complication of a mortgage ?—We paid interest for this money until it was repaid ; and that is really all I know about it. 53. Hon. J. Carroll.] Are you clear that you paid interest for this money ?—I suppose so, because we did not draw any rent during that time, and I presume that was held back for interest. 54. Hon. T. Kelly.] I understand that you are entitled to 500 acres of land in these blocks. Has that 500 acres been cut out for you, or is the 500 acres somewhere in the block, but not located by survey ?—lt has been subdivided by the Court, but, as far as I know, there has been no detail survey. 55. Are there several others with you?—My section is in my own name. 56. Do you not know the locality ?—No. 57. What I want to bring out is this : According to your statement, you get £6 a year for 500 acres, or at the rate of about 3d. an acre. If your section is to be taken as only somewhere in the blocks, then that would represent the average rental of the whole of the blocks ?—Here is a document which shows the rentals paid for the Matakitaki Block : —■ Matakitaki Pobaka. Nga tangnta o te Karaati tuturu i te whakataunga tuatahi c Tβ Kooti Whenua Maori: (1) Piripi te Maari (2) Karauria Hape, (3) Heremaia Tamaikotua, (4) Hemi te Miha, (5) Maraea te Toatoa, (6) Ihapera Turakirae, (7) Ani Pikonoa, (8) Riria Tauhinu, (9) Hohepa te Whanga, me (10) Tiopira Tahana.

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tga Tangata o te Karaati Tuturu. Nga Kai-riiwhi. Nga Kai-tiaki. (1) P. te Maari (2) Karauria Hape (3) Heremaia Tamaikotua .. (4) Hemi t« Miha (a) Ihetere Hemi (6) Tuilia Homi (5) Maraea te Toatoa (1) Bruha te Maari, (2) Te Kahu te Maari, (3) Arapata te Maari, (4) Nikorima te Maari, (5) Te Whanautane te Maari (1) Hiria Karauria. (1) Niniwa Heremaia, (2) Paraone te Manawa-kawa. (1) Heta Hemi, (2) Te Ngaere. (1) Te Ngaere Hemi. (1) Heta Hemi, (2) Te Ngaere Hemi. (1) Euihi Aporo, (2) Hui te Miha, (3) Iraia te Whaiti, (4) Hone te Whaiti rite tonu nga Hea (1) Heta Hemi, (2) Te Ngaere Hemi. Eruha te Maari. Aporo Hare. (6) Ihapera Turakirae (7) Ani Pikonoa. (8) Riria Tauhinu .. (a) Haromi Otene (9) Hohepa te Whanga. (10) Tiopira Tahana. (1) Ropoama Meihana, (2) Haromi Otene. (1) Ropoama Meihana.