7

I.—B

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Peiday, 19th November, 1897. The Hon. J. Cabeoll, in laying the case before the Committee, read the following letters, in order to familiarise members with the facts as represented by the Maoris interested :— Greytown, Wairarapa, 24th August, 1897. The Hon. Mr. McKenzie, Acting Premier, and the Hon. Mr. Carroll. — Friends, greeting. A great hardship having come upon us, we write to you and entreat you and your Government to consider our case and assist us who are pressed down with a groat weight. This hardship is a very grievous one. In the year 1890, or 1893, a lease of the under-mentioned lands of ours was arranged,—namely, of: (1) Kawakawa, 17,790 acres; (2) Matakitaki, 4,910 acres ; (3) Kopi, 2,600 acres. At that time partition cases were being taken before the Native Land Court, and at that time, too, trouble arose between us, the Maoris who had interests, and the lessees, the troublo boing that there were two persons who stepped in and demanded, one that we should sign his lease, and the other that we should sign his. The names of those two persons were, Mr. Charles Pharazyn and Te Ama, each of whom had a deed of loaso. Their negotiations proceeded. Some of us were drawn to Te Ama, while some were drawn to Mr. Pharazyn. While they were conducting their negotiations for obtaining names (signatures), Mr. Charles Pharazyn's agent made arrangements for advancing moneys, it being known that if any of our number (that is, our parents) wished to obtain moneys they should go to him. This was tho commencement of our disaster; and upon this the majority of the people signed the lease to Mr. Charles Pharazyn. Subsequently to our signing our names one and another took moneys. At the same time an agreement to mortgage was signed between Mr. Charles Pharazyn and ourselves, the interest being at the rate of of 8 per cent, per annum ; and now we are asked to sign the deed of mortgage. Well then, should wo sign the document then indeed shall we suffer, because those are all the lands wo have, and, too, the small amounts payable to us are not sufficient to pay the interest and tho principal received by us from him. We have not received any rent from the time the lease was made ; all has boen absorbed jn the payment of tho interest for moneys reoeived. Those of us who have escaped from this disaster are those who did not sign the lease to Mr. Charles Pharazyn but signed the lease to Te Ama. The amount of interest payable for tho sums of monoy received is in excess of the amount of the rent that each of us is entitled to receive. Wo supply you herewith a schedule showing : —(1.) our interests (the acreage thoreof), (2) the amount of indebtedness, (3) the interest on loan, (A) the amount of rent, (5) the shortage, boing the difference between rent and interest. You will thus see that the rent is not sufficient to pay the full amount of interest, and the debt is ever increasing. It is not that we object to ropay thoso moneys ; we are willing to do so, but not to do so in the manner demanded of us, that is by signing an effective deed of mortgage. For, by the foregoing statement of the position that we have there shown you it would be better for us to sell our shares than to sign the deed of mortgage. Again, considering the nature of the transaction under which our signatures and those of our elders were obtained to this lease, it would be right that some arrangement be made under which we should be onabled to pay off our indebtedness to him, and so retain our lands for our descendants. We have laid our suggestions in that direction before Mr. Charles Pharazyn, but these suggestions did not have effect, as tho two persons who are working the land did not agree thereto. We, therefore, pray that you will give this your consideration.—Sufficient, from your friends. Eruha te Maari, Rina Ihakara, Heta Hemi te Miha, Reti a te Maari, Ngaore Heemi, Whanautane te Maari, Ani Ratima, , Nikorima te Maari, Hiria Karauria, Arapata te Maari Kahu Piripi, Makero Kirihi, Ngatikahungunu Tribe.

P.S.—The majority of these signatures are those of the sons and daughters of the original debtors, a few of which are set out in the following schedule: —

Copy of letter received by Te Ngaere Hemi and others, calling upon them to execute a deed of mortgage to Mr. Charles Pharazyn : — Greytown, Wairarapa, 7th October, 1897. To Te Ngaere Hemi, Tauranganui, Lower Valley. Sib, —This is to notify you, should you fail to sign the deed of mortgage to Mr. Charles Pharazyn of your interest in Whatarangi {i.e., Matakitaki and Kawakawa Blocks) within seven days from date, a writ of the Supreme Court will be issued against you compelling you to sign the deed, and to pay all costs incurred. Mr. Charles Pharazyn has no desire to take this action against you, but he has been pressed by Mr. Sinclair and Te Ama (Iraia te Whaiti) to get this done, and if you will not do it, then proceedings will be taken as stated above. Mr. McFarlane (Native Agent and Interpreter) has the deed, as you already know. You will understand that when you began to borrow money from Mr. Pharazyn you signed an agreement to mortgage all your interests in Te Kawakawa, Matakitaki, and To Kopi Blocks, that, aftor twelve months' notice wa3 given you, you were to sign the original deed. The notice was given you a little ovgr two years ago. From your friend, H. Stratton Izabd, Solicitor, Greytown.

Debtors. Interest, Acreage. Rent. Debt. Interest on Loan per Annum, at 8 per Cent. Increase on Principal caused by insufficiency of Bents. £ s. d. £ s. d. £ s. a. £ a. d. Piripiri te Maari .. \ Hemi te Miha .. -j Kooro te Baukirikiri j Kawakawa No. 1, 3,400 acres Matakitaki No. 1, 580 acres Kawakawa No. 1, 2,000 aores Matakitaki No. 1, 430 acres Te Kopi No. 2, 760 acres Te Kopi No. 5, 200 acres Kawakawa No. 1, 1,200 acres Kawakawa No. 1, 1,600 acres Matakitaki No. 1, 215 acres Matakitiaki No. 1, 265 acres . 48 0 0 38 5 7 1,544 2 7 1,382 12 6 120 0 0 108 0 0 72 0 0 69 14 5 14 9 7 558 7 6 44 0 0 29 10 5 24 11 5 452 3 6 36 0 0 11 8 7 Te Ngaere Hemi 3 5 6 109 6 3 8 0 0 4 14 6